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How to get Trading job at a Hedge Fund?
- Thread starter midlifeguy
- Start date
Quote from quin8670:
hey midlifeguy,
If you have a lot of experience trading why don't you trade on your own?
If you are good at trading you should be able to make good money and you only have to answer to yourself. Why go with a hedge fund if you can succeed on your own?
That's what i told him in first place. Many guys think they have a lot of experience in trading in THEIR own mind only.
Quote from midlifeguy:
Does anyone have any advice for getting a trading job at a Hedge Fund?
I have lots of experience in Trading but not at Hedge Funds.
Thanks
p.s. Please no b.s. answers. Thanks
How about contacting Dimitry Balyasny?
Hard to believe he is up to $5 B and competing with the likes of Tudor for foot print in India.
Is this the greatest daytrading to riches story ever??
Few months ago on ET and also very recently somewhere on internet news, I heard that most of the trading jobs are going away and they are being taken over by the computers. If it is actually true, then like Chess, beating a computer in trading will become increasingly difficult. Another analogy, during a bad weather, the aeroplanes are put on the autopilot........main reason, the reaction time is faster, infact instant in order to bring the plane back into normal band of numbers.
Computers are taking over our lives very fast! Soon surgeries might be performed by the computers, if they are not being already.
This sounds scary, but who knows WWIII might be fought between humans and computers...........do not want to be in that scenario!
Computers are taking over our lives very fast! Soon surgeries might be performed by the computers, if they are not being already.
This sounds scary, but who knows WWIII might be fought between humans and computers...........do not want to be in that scenario!
Quote from nitro:
There are umbrella firms out there that will take you in under one of their "share classes", depending on the risk of your system and it's returns as measured by the usual statistical measures. The umbrella firm is responsible for bringing in the money and selling your "system" to prospective/existing clients of theirs. The payouts to you are negotiable, but basically you get raped if you compare to the typical 2/20 deal. However, it is a great way to build a track record.
nitro
i could be interested. i am running a grey box on the eurex that is scalable up to 100 mil euro with no liquidity issues and has maintained its edge over time. do you have any contact? pm me you'd prefer. thanks.
Quote from asap:
i could be interested. i am running a grey box on the eurex that is scalable up to 100 mil euro with no liquidity issues and has maintained its edge over time. do you have any contact? pm me you'd prefer. thanks.
OK... issues with umbrella...
There's quite a few of them out there... I don't use them and it was a tedious process (mostly legal) starting on our own.
Look at it this way... the larger umbrella firms already have their set of clients. They would only let a "program" join that can be marketable to the investors/investing firms. So your trading models / trading side structure will have to be as equally "hedge fund" quality as they are.
The firms will generally keep the management fee which goes towards the structure maintenance. Usually, they take 1/4 to 1/2 of the performance fee...
You'll have to be working under their execution platforms. Word grey box means nothing. It means you're a discretionary trader. You say, "We have a system that we follow". They say, "So why isn't this automated?". Anything you say after this will be degrading your product.
You can't expect the original marketing team going out selling your "program" for you. Sure, you'll get small lumps, here and there. But you'll be doing most of the marketing yourself, and the umbrella firm will expect to get lumps for their fund too.
Basically, you're renting out a space to use their lawyers, prime brokers, audits and etc. by offering them a large sum of your income.
Of course, you claim that your cap is about E100m. You'll have to provide them with numbers for all the fuzzy claims you make, as much as possible. Also, telling the investor "I use stops" and "I use position sizing" is not considered risk management.
These days, "fuzzy" numbers are not acceptable. If you use "any" discretion, make sure you have a strong/audited track record. If you try to make your "program" fancy by calling Systems / Algorithms or Scalping / High Frequency, you'll likely get killed with "He has no idea what he's talking about..." ... about 1/2 the time.
Also, the final due diligence meeting can go on for 2-3 days, 8 hours full.
Most of the above is a norm. You call that "trading"? I call it "business".
I come from the Buy side as well. And your only hope is using the rolodex sitting next to you and your personality. Hopefully you did the right thing during your BS tenor.
Or = Start your own. Differentiate yourself by going performance based only. I am contemplating this right now. I have a long term system that kills it with low volty and have had interest. The only problem is an Inst cannot invest and be more than 10% of your fund. And they wont look at you to invest less than 1mm. So as they say with a twist "raising your first 10mm is the hardest..."
Good luck
Or = Start your own. Differentiate yourself by going performance based only. I am contemplating this right now. I have a long term system that kills it with low volty and have had interest. The only problem is an Inst cannot invest and be more than 10% of your fund. And they wont look at you to invest less than 1mm. So as they say with a twist "raising your first 10mm is the hardest..."
Good luck
We are going to a society of service sector (LOW PAYING) jobs. The middle class is cooked. I heard
in the paper here that 96% of College grads this year do not have a job lined up. Maybe other areas of the Country are booming but I don't see it. Yes, if you want a job, there are millions of Office Depot positions for you....or Sonic Burger.
in the paper here that 96% of College grads this year do not have a job lined up. Maybe other areas of the Country are booming but I don't see it. Yes, if you want a job, there are millions of Office Depot positions for you....or Sonic Burger.
Quote from toc:
Few months ago on ET and also very recently somewhere on internet news, I heard that most of the trading jobs are going away and they are being taken over by the computers. If it is actually true, then like Chess, beating a computer in trading will become increasingly difficult. Another analogy, during a bad weather, the aeroplanes are put on the autopilot........main reason, the reaction time is faster, infact instant in order to bring the plane back into normal band of numbers.
Computers are taking over our lives very fast! Soon surgeries might be performed by the computers, if they are not being already.
This sounds scary, but who knows WWIII might be fought between humans and computers...........do not want to be in that scenario!
Quote from midlifeguy:
We are going to a society of service sector (LOW PAYING) jobs. The middle class is cooked. I heard
in the paper here that 96% of College grads this year do not have a job lined up. Maybe other areas of the Country are booming but I don't see it. Yes, if you want a job, there are millions of Office Depot positions for you....or Sonic Burger.
I am a former buyside trader as well. I worked for a hedge fund for the past 5 years and am now starting one on my own. The problem is that a buy side trader is not really a trader, just a middle man. Getting orders from the pm and feeding them out to brokers. You need to reinvent yourself and become a real trader. Develop a strategy, open an account with IB and start trading.
just as a note of interest---- anyone who believes they can raise ANY institutional funds without substantial infrastructure, pedigreed team, contingency support and finally a substantial track record with a bullet proof audit from a well respected firm is merely deluding themselves.
make sure you can carry 40k month, minimum expenses, to cover the above, for some time prior to even expecting an institution to look at you---track record will be the least of your worries.
regards,
surf
ps. think about it....everybody has a good track record, or they wouldn't think they could run a fund. its next to meaningless.
make sure you can carry 40k month, minimum expenses, to cover the above, for some time prior to even expecting an institution to look at you---track record will be the least of your worries.
regards,
surf
ps. think about it....everybody has a good track record, or they wouldn't think they could run a fund. its next to meaningless.