How to find a Prop. Firm?

okwon · Feb 15, 2004

Quote from esc_trader:

Clearly the prop that doesn't require a deposit is the failure waiting to happen. The idea that companies will bring in guys, give them money to trade, and train them into winners is insane!
(Not to mention an insult to traders - an underestimation of the skill and years of experience required to succeed)

You probably want a firm that will be around for a while, in case you are successful, so stick with a firm that requires capital deposit. If you are unwilling to come up with the 5-10k required, I would doubt your level of committment to making this work.

I disagree. Actually, your statement sounds ridiculous to me. I think the most successful firms are ones that do not require a deposit and even pay you while you're learning. It's only obvious if a company knew how to create successful traders, they would have no problem putting their money where their mouth is.

Companies have been bringing in guys, giving them money to trade, and training them into winners for many years now. It's harder to get into these shops but there are many and they are very successful.

J-Law · Feb 15, 2004

"If you are unwilling to come up with the 5-10k required, I would doubt your level of commitment to making this work."[i/]

How many people you know that have a spare 10G's to post ??? Especially, in this economy, right out of college or whatever. Money in hand is not a measure of how bad one wants to succeed. I've scene enough rich kid brats whom have gotten into trading, blew their wad and the whole experience meant SPIT to them because someone was flippin the bill.

$$$ no $$$, has no bearing on one's sense of commitment.

&,........What you never saw Wall Street ??

Also, ETG groomed some really good traders whom they brought in as complete novices. Guys that really knocked the cover off the ball. I can think of one...although an exception to the rule, that is good for 35K a month.

At the end of the day the newbie will either be a good trader or a bad trader..........but he/she will not know until they try.

maddsci · Feb 16, 2004

is ST Elite and ST the same company? i have some day trading exp and want to make it more of a full time thing. i have heard that they have improved their training and are making an effort to retain their traders. thinking of going to ST or Golden? can anybody corroborate the above statements or give me any input?

esc_trader · Feb 16, 2004

Quote from okwon:

Companies have been bringing in guys, giving them money to trade, and training them into winners for many years now. It's harder to get into these shops but there are many and they are very successful.

Who has been doing that? \

esc_trader · Feb 16, 2004

Quote from J-Law:

"If you are unwilling to come up with the 5-10k required, I would doubt your level of commitment to making this work."[i/]

How many people you know that have a spare 10G's to post ???

College loan, credit cards, parents, friends, sell items.. Anybody enrolled in college can get a loan for 5-10k.

Geez, so you wanna be trader? So you spend $20,000-100,000 on a college education that is worthless to a trader, and you won't come up with $5k to start your little enterprise?!

Most young people, they won't get what they want out of trading. They say they want to make $. Not true. They want to make $ and not even do sh*t to earn it! A newbie trader is worthless to a trading organization. That's why all these props get paid off commissions. You can get a monkey to press a button, the props get their cut.

You got to put in the required work, and it takes YEARS. If you won't even put up some of your own $, that only says you want a firm to teach you, to give you the software and rates, and EVEN a grubstake!

okwon · Feb 16, 2004

Quote from esc_trader:

Who has been doing that? \

You said, "Clearly the prop that doesn't require a deposit is the failure waiting to happen. The idea that companies will bring in guys, give them money to trade, and train them into winners is insane!"

A real prop firm is one that doesn't require a deposit. It's been going on in both futures and options for quite sometime now. A lot of places do exactly what you describe as insane and are very successful. It's also true when you start out as trading assistants in funds etc.

Equity shops don't do it anymore with the exception of a couple because they are not prop shops but just overleveraged retail brokers. They really have no stake in you turning profitable. If they knew how to make profitable traders, why would they need a deposit? The bottom line is, most of them don't know how to make traders successful so they go for the brokerage model. Which is fine, but to call real prop shops that know how to turn profitable traders "insane" and a "failure waiting to happen" is ridiculous.

esc_trader · Feb 16, 2004

For the firm taking people off the street, more insane.

The firms you speak of I think have something extra, for instance the big players, they can push markets around, have inside info sometimes, they have enough capital to shake the smaller players out, some cases trade customer flow. Much different than the types of firms that frequent these boards.

okwon · Feb 16, 2004

Quote from esc_trader:

Much different than the types of firms that frequent these boards.

No argument there and you're right they don't take just anybody off the street.

metooxx · Feb 16, 2004

Quote from esc_trader:

Clearly the prop that doesn't require a deposit is the failure waiting to happen. The idea that companies will bring in guys, give them money to trade, and train them into winners is insane!
(Not to mention an insult to traders - an underestimation of the skill and years of experience required to succeed)

You probably want a firm that will be around for a while, in case you are successful, so stick with a firm that requires capital deposit. If you are unwilling to come up with the 5-10k required, I would doubt your level of committment to making this work.

I think you are mistaken.

The model you describe is nothing more than retail in disguise of a professional trading firm ...

AOL_9.0 Man · Feb 16, 2004

just about every other endevour in life that allows you to fire live rounds, usually requires live training and live committment.

When you're sitting on a trading desk and accummulate a position well over $200,000 in position value swinging midly up $800 and down $600, and then over the course of the day up over $1,250 and possibly down over $1,750 then you quickly realize that for that kind of action not only is a deposit required,

a deposit of size is required. $5,000 is modest.

You certainly could not trade in a retail account without a deposit....

Incidently, imagine the damage done to a $5,000 account with a confirmed $1,750 loss. Now imagine a similar sized gain, taking the account up to $6,750. Tough loss, great gains. Now imagine the same without a deposit and that much capital at risk.

Parents, trust fund kids and other beneficiaries usually get such patrician opportunities, not the general public.

cheers