How to end the search for the holy grail?

Walther · Jan 9, 2004

Quote from snooptrader:

And, you will sell it to them - right?

Thank you for a courage to publicly display your belief that I have discovered The Holy Grail of trading .
Yes, you are correct , I have it .
Thank you for believing in me . I could not have done it without people like you .
Walter

Walther · Jan 9, 2004

Quote from jem:

There may be no grail, but there is some very good watering holes along the path. By the way I do not even need volume in my current set up.

IF you trade stocks, you need volume . For futures you do not need volume .
Walter

abogdan · Jan 9, 2004

Quote from jem:

Abogdans concepts if it works will go away.

How can you say that if you don't even know what my concept is?
And besides, if I understand you correctly, your style is not that different from mine with the exception of me using computing power to do the dirty work, and dirty work only.

formikatrading · Jan 9, 2004

"Live with Passion!" -- Anthony Robbins

Quote from bundlemaker:

Since I haven't seen anyone mention the path I took to my "holy grail" I'll give you my two cents.

I just kept looking at every idea I could investigate. The list included Gann, Elliott Wave, conventional TA, individual gurus, seminars, books, web sites, other traders, Woodie, Murrey Math, and on and on and on.

Part of it was the need to get it all out of my system. Most important though was finding something that made sense to me. Notice, I didn't say something that worked (ie. produced profits) but that it made sense.

For all the bashing of Tony Robbins and the like, what I learned from him was and is far and away much more important than anything to do with trading itself.

It's ALL about beliefs and committment. Period. Once I got in my head that I created all the results (ie. my circumstances) I ever got, that also meant I would create whatever came next. I can't tell you how many times I quit and started trading inside a period of a week. Once I stopped doing that and just buckled down, and said, "it doesn't matter how long it takes, this is what I do", it was a matter of a few months before I had major breakthroughs.

I'll repeat once more though, what made it possible was the psychological tool to manage my state, construct useful beliefs, and make adequate mental representations of what it was I needed to do. Work on that first. The trading stuff you need will be drawn to you like a magnet, you won't have to look for it.

TallTrader · Jan 9, 2004

I think it's ok to jump from strategy to strategy as long as you play with a limited amount of risk capital. After all, actually doing is the best way to learn. Sometime I will set up separate tabbed pages in IB TWS and trade a small number of contracts to test out some strategies.

Discipline is great, and we should all be disciplined traders, but sometimes I like to take time out and "have fun".

jem · Jan 9, 2004

abogdan, I have no problem with your model, system whatever. I wish that I had more programming skills and am taking steps to remedy that situation. I do have a problem (friendly) with the statement that t/a does not work. I use it to find support resistance everyday sometimes with explosive moves right off the spot. I saw a study by a person at the fed validating using here bootstrap statiscal analysis validating t/a in the currency markets.

So after reading what you have said I think you are using a computer to do what I used to do by watching 4-5 stocks everyday. The problem for me became the compressed ranges and the lack of pops b/c of the arb relative to my costs.

I believe if there are inefficiences that are capable of being detected by computers they will be arbed away. So I have focused on a two pronged attack. I will get better at computers, and in the mean time I will use my improved t/a to make some money.

abogdan · Jan 9, 2004

Quote from jem:

abogdan, I have no problem with your model, system whatever. I wish that I had more programming skills and am taking steps to remedy that situation. I do have a problem (friendly) with the statement that t/a does not work. I use it to find support resistance everyday sometimes with explosive moves right off the spot. I saw a study by a person at the fed validating using here bootstrap statiscal analysis validating t/a in the currency markets.

So after reading what you have said I think you are using a computer to do what I used to do by watching 4-5 stocks everyday. The problem for me became the compressed ranges and the lack of pops b/c of the arb relative to my costs.

I believe if there are inefficiences that are capable of being detected by computers they will be arbed away. So I have focused on a two pronged attack. I will get better at computers, and in the mean time I will use my improved t/a to make some money.

I understand.
Peace,

50 cent · Jan 9, 2004

Quote from abogdan:

I simply don't believe that there is enough information in Price vs. Time charts. You've been to my site; you know what I'm talking about!

Yet the physical fact that there exist traders that CONSISTENTLY pull money out of the market using price, time and volume alone, indicate that it IS enough, when combined with money and risk management.

However, that does not contradict that there can be other systems that work consistently just as well or better. To each his own preference.

I for one stick only to price time and volume because they are the only things that are REAL, i.e. they are physically happening on planet earth. The rest are all sorts of mathematical derivatives and inferences, and you can only trust them as much as you trust the person who invented them, i.e. - I don't trust them.

However once again, me not trusting a system, does not mean it doesn't work. But it does mean it won't work for me. There is very little chance that a person can bet his money on something he doesn't trust, without immense psychological conflict. That conflict will surely interfere with the results.

Cheers
50

BSAM · Jan 9, 2004

Quote from Walther:

Do you believe that the Holy Grail of trading exists ? If you believe it and you will keep searching, you will find it .
It exists.
Walter

Walter, Walter, Walter.....

Have you NOT had your morning coffee?

dbphoenix · Jan 9, 2004

Quote from 50 cent:

I for one stick only to price time and volume because they are the only things that are REAL, i.e. they are physically happening on planet earth. The rest are all sorts of mathematical derivatives and inferences, and you can only trust them as much as you trust the person who invented them, i.e. - I don't trust them.

I don't get involved in this sort of thing any more because it's impossible to know what those who claim that trading off "price and volume" doesn't work are talking about. Since traders are behind every price move, it's impossible for trading off price not to work unless one is doing it wrong (i.e., doesn't know what to look for, manages it improperly, etc.). But the only way to know just what somebody who's having this trouble is doing is to watch him. And that particular opportunity is not there.

By the same token, those who say that indicators "don't work" probably aren't using them properly either, since it is not the indicators that work (how could they, with a virtually infinite choice of settings and applications) but the trader. Indicators are, of course, great for scans, but they can also help to confirm a trader's judgement if the water is particularly muddy.

But as far as being "arbed away", this will never occur with trading off price since trading off price means trading off fear, and fear will always be a part of market action, just as it has been for centuries.