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How to deal with those non-Americans messing with threads on American National Intere
- Thread starter fairplay
- Start date
Very interesting: a classic example of "shift of paradigm". Glad to see that Germany is no more a threat to ethnic minorities!Quote from msfe:
Let's hear it for the Germans
When I see headlines reading "Germany opposes war", I don't think, dirty traitors, snivelling cowards or whatever George and Tony think. I cry "Hooray!" For what could be more reassuring than a peace-loving, war-hating Germany? This is what we spent most of last century praying for; now that we have it, all we do is complain.
America is furious with Germany over its lack of support for an invasion of Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, went so far last week as to condemn it as "old Europe". There is no greater insult in Rumsfeld's book. But he seems to have forgotten what Americans traditionally mean by it. The US has always thought of "old Europe" as devious, unscrupulous, expansionist and imperialist, regularly threatening the peace of the world. Today, that description would better describe the US than Germany. If, on the other hand, there is such a thing as "new Europe", Germany is clearly it. Almost 60 years since the end of the second world war, no traces of the old Nazi expansionism survive. The Germans have become pussycats.
Only a few years ago, it was still possible for Nicholas Ridley to suggest, in an interview with the Spectator, a comparison between Hitler's attempted military takeover of Europe and the supposed economic ambitions of Chancellor Kohl. The interview was illustrated by a cartoon of Ridley as a vandal, painting a Hitler moustache on a poster of Kohl's face. (Ridley had to resign from Margaret Thatcher's cabinet as a result.)
This would be unthinkable now. Who could find anything remotely Hitlerian in Gerhard Schröder - a smoothie who may or may not dye his hair, who may or may not have a mistress as well as a fourth wife, but who shrinks from even the most modest kind of international grandstanding. And fears that this may be a false posture - that the Germans may still harbour secretly a desire to lord it over Europe - would not seem to be justified.
In a debate last week on the future of Europe, held at the ICA, the German poet Hans Magnus Enzensberger plausibly maintained that Germany is much more comfortable with its diminished role on the world stage than is either Britain or France. He is, perhaps, a little biased. He is a European federalist. But he pointed out that, until its unification in 1871, Germany was a collection of independent principalities whose citizens drew a sense of unity only from a common culture. Their stab at world imperialism in the 20th century was so disastrous and horrible in every way that they were only too happy to revert to the status of a middle-sized power, unburdened by international responsibilities.
Britain, which is obviously much closer to Rumsfeld's idea of what a European nation should be like because it follows the US wherever it leads, fits the description "old Europe" much better than Germany. For Britain - or, at any rate, Tony Blair - still can't help hankering after a world role. The Germans are now sufficiently confident of having cast off Hitler's shadow that they even dare insinuate Hitlerian tendencies in others. Schröder was forced to apologise to Bush last autumn after his justice minister, Herta Däubler-Gmelin, accused the US president of using Iraq to divert public attention from domestic political problems. "It's a method that is sometimes favoured," she was controversially quoted as saying. "Hitler also did that."
Indeed he did. And, if one were of a suspicious bent, one might even wonder if the British government wasn't up to something similar last week, although in this case to divert attention not to Iraq but away from it. For the police's dramatic if somewhat fruitless raid on the Finsbury Park mosque forced off some front pages the news that the government was sending 30,000 troops to the Gulf.
In 2001, Britain spent $34.7bn on defence, about $2bn more than France and $8bn more than Germany. Britain is, in fact, the biggest spender on defence in Europe. This may be a good thing, or it may not, but it is difficult not to be envious of the greater sums spent on health and transport by our largest European neighbours.
In any event, Rumsfeld's picture of Germany as "old Europe" and Britain as "new" is very rum. It means nothing at all, in fact - unless "new" is just another word for doing whatever America wants.
found at `The FBI better be right about this...´ www.permachat.co.uk :
`Methinks the Yank position on all subjects is becoming clear; we're right, you're wrong, shut up or we will bomb you.´
`Methinks the Yank position on all subjects is becoming clear; we're right, you're wrong, shut up or we will bomb you.´
Quote from msfe:
found at `The FBI better be right about this...´ www.permachat.co.uk :
`Methinks the Yank position on all subjects is becoming clear; we're right, you're wrong, shut up or we will bomb you.´
Yet another classic from you, MSFE. Those Brits they are just blessed with so much more funny ideas than the rest of the world could ever dream of.
Quote from roe:
Very interesting: a classic example of "shift of paradigm". Glad to see that Germany is no more a threat to ethnic minorities!
Thats right,
Now it's America's turn to bully ethnic minorities like Arabs in Iraq.
Methinks Korea is safe though. They have no oil and their big buddy China might protect them fom Dubya.
Red Neck Roe might be surprised that, outside of America, a lot of people do not like Americans. Hitler grabbed land and killed people; Bush grabs oil and kills people.
Nice to see Blair has the House of Commons turning against him. Now he knows the people don't want to fight Bush's oil war.
And please don't resurrect the "we saved Europe bullshit."
That was in the past, history. Only unhappy people dwell on the past.
I'm sure that msfe/wild will have something interesting to say about this:
Duarte also monitors The Moscow Times for reports about Germany and Russia. He says, "There has been documented evidence of correspondence between Saddam and Chirac over the years and the French government has not denied there have been personal letters."
Duarte, who gets credit for being among the first, along with Friedman's Stratfor.com, to recognize the political problems that shut down Venezuela's oil industry late last year, says several political figures face their greatest challenges in the next several weeks.
The money manager points to reports, ignored in the American press, that the German government admitted holding back evidence of smallpox-virus arsenals in Iraq. The news organization Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung says German authorities may have been worried that news of the arsenals would ruin Chancellor Gerhardt Schroeder's re-election effort.
Schroeder on Wednesday will visit Moscow at the invitation of Russian President Vladimir Putin. The Russian leader this past weekend sent a former prime minister, Yevgeny Primakov, to meet with Saddam in Baghdad. Stratfor describes Primakov as a friend of Saddam.
Duarte in the past 18 months has forecast accurately the growing volatility of energy markets. He also has laid out the growing importance of Russia and the diminishing influence of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries on supply and demand in the oil marketplace.
"Look, Saddam does have smallpox, the virus, and it is a biological weapon, and Germany knows about it," he says. "As these things start coming out in the open, and Putin gets involved, a lot of personal things that can be politically damaging will shape events. Over the last two or three days a lot of reports have come out that are damning to a lot of people."
From:
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/sto...e&guid={6E368A7B-2A32-4CAD-B36B-A0CF7BFA69E0}
Duarte also monitors The Moscow Times for reports about Germany and Russia. He says, "There has been documented evidence of correspondence between Saddam and Chirac over the years and the French government has not denied there have been personal letters."
Duarte, who gets credit for being among the first, along with Friedman's Stratfor.com, to recognize the political problems that shut down Venezuela's oil industry late last year, says several political figures face their greatest challenges in the next several weeks.
The money manager points to reports, ignored in the American press, that the German government admitted holding back evidence of smallpox-virus arsenals in Iraq. The news organization Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung says German authorities may have been worried that news of the arsenals would ruin Chancellor Gerhardt Schroeder's re-election effort.
Schroeder on Wednesday will visit Moscow at the invitation of Russian President Vladimir Putin. The Russian leader this past weekend sent a former prime minister, Yevgeny Primakov, to meet with Saddam in Baghdad. Stratfor describes Primakov as a friend of Saddam.
Duarte in the past 18 months has forecast accurately the growing volatility of energy markets. He also has laid out the growing importance of Russia and the diminishing influence of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries on supply and demand in the oil marketplace.
"Look, Saddam does have smallpox, the virus, and it is a biological weapon, and Germany knows about it," he says. "As these things start coming out in the open, and Putin gets involved, a lot of personal things that can be politically damaging will shape events. Over the last two or three days a lot of reports have come out that are damning to a lot of people."
From:
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/sto...e&guid={6E368A7B-2A32-4CAD-B36B-A0CF7BFA69E0}
skeptic123
Guest
Quote from toby400:
Thats right,
Now it's America's turn to bully ethnic minorities like Arabs in Iraq.
Methinks Korea is safe though. They have no oil and their big buddy China might protect them fom Dubya.
Red Neck Roe might be surprised that, outside of America, a lot of people do not like Americans. Hitler grabbed land and killed people; Bush grabs oil and kills people.
Nice to see Blair has the House of Commons turning against him. Now he knows the people don't want to fight Bush's oil war.
And please don't resurrect the "we saved Europe bullshit."
That was in the past, history. Only unhappy people dwell on the past.
Toby, every statement in your post is idiotic,
-Arabs are majority in Iraq, they are minority in France, at least for now
-There are two Koreas in case you do not know. Which one is safe? The one developing nukes?, Or its southern neighbor is safe from the nuclear strike? Nah, you would not care about safety of democratic countries like S. Korea, you and your anti-war buddies only worry that dictators god forbid do not get bad treatment.
-Hitler killed and grabbed land, so did Hussein. Bush has not killed anybody, and has not grabbed no land. Even if you believe he will in the future, he has not done it yet and your calling him a killer is disgusting.
-Blair knew public sentiment before House of Commons. He just has guts and inteligence to ignore idiots
-We did save Europe whether you like it or not. We are not dwelling on the past but it is a debt of honor which has not been repaid. You of course do not have to repay it and may default on the debt (as disgraceful as it may be). France already has.
skeptic, some people just seem genetically predisposed to abhor war; nothing will ever be justification enough in their eyes. (unless it's some che guevarra wannabe overthrowing the 'evil establishment')
some people simply cannot fathom that a politician might be acting for the general good rather than just his own.
did you happen to catch the blair interview, where those peacnik schmuks tried to grill him on the war issue (with their juvenile accusatory tones)? he held up ADMIRABLY. they had nothing on him. what an officer and a gentleman. (and he's not even a conservative!)
and yep, how easily people forget. america most certainly did save europe's ass. she didn't even have to do it. her war was with japan. certainly didn't have to help reconstruct it after the war had ended.
now that's "all in the past" huh? freakin morons.
some people simply cannot fathom that a politician might be acting for the general good rather than just his own.
did you happen to catch the blair interview, where those peacnik schmuks tried to grill him on the war issue (with their juvenile accusatory tones)? he held up ADMIRABLY. they had nothing on him. what an officer and a gentleman. (and he's not even a conservative!)
and yep, how easily people forget. america most certainly did save europe's ass. she didn't even have to do it. her war was with japan. certainly didn't have to help reconstruct it after the war had ended.
now that's "all in the past" huh? freakin morons.
Toby, what a stupid post. Then again we don't really expect too much logic from you lot.
People who do anything to win an argument are despicable.
You said : "That was in the past, history. Only unhappy people dwell on the past."
So what you are actually saying to Roe is that he isn't allowed to bring up facts from the past.
Yet, that rule doesn't apply to you so it seems, how logical.
If there is a case for 'no war' it is people like you who spoil it for others (whose outlook is 'no war') by making stupid and absurd statements.
Anyway I know I am wasting my breath as you lunies have no capacity for shame.
freealways
People who do anything to win an argument are despicable.
You said : "That was in the past, history. Only unhappy people dwell on the past."
So what you are actually saying to Roe is that he isn't allowed to bring up facts from the past.
Yet, that rule doesn't apply to you so it seems, how logical.
If there is a case for 'no war' it is people like you who spoil it for others (whose outlook is 'no war') by making stupid and absurd statements.
Anyway I know I am wasting my breath as you lunies have no capacity for shame.
freealways