Quote from jack hershey:
In "Think" (IBM, 1957) there was a discussion on people and their way of perceiving (sensing). Vertical and horizontal are the choices. To maintain a neutral bias it is best to work in a horizontal orientation.
You can check a person's orientation by reading what they write or how they describe things.
So that is why the lines of boundaries are named the way they are. At some point more differentiation will occur and we will build three levels of price movement boundaries (envelopes that are nested).
Jack, please help with some B.P.A. related questions. Terminology is critical in this process.
1. What boundaries? Are you referring to channel lines?
2. In referring to price movement boundaries you call them "envelopes that are nested" parenthetically. What are envelopes? Is that also another term for channels?
So I interpret this as you explaining why the channel lines are named left and right rather than top and bottom.
If so, fine. If not, please clarify.
Moving to a horizontal orientation there is a mental cohoice of looking from the future into the present or looking from the present into the future.
PA bettors look one way and we who do not bet, look the other way.
Which way, please? [edit: Okay, got it. You start with the future and work to the present.]
Going horizontal to be neutral is a hard step for some. Looking into the present from the future is very hard as you can see from all the betting being done.
I will attempt to break down what you say. Please correct me as needed.
By vertical, you refer to the mindset of looking at price moving as going up and down, right?
By horizontal, you refer to the idea of looking at price as moving from left to right in time.
Frankly, if that's what you mean, then I agree. It felt like an epiphany finally grasping what you write about how you can plan out several trades in advance. Is that thinking horizontally? Thinking from the future to the present?
Hopefully, I'm making headway and getting into the groove of how you perceive the market. Perception is everything!
It seems that concept relates to the pace of the market. You talk about the human nature of it operating faster and gradually slowing till lunch, then quickening again right after lunch, then decelerating till a big final burst in the afternoon due to automated risk management.
It's clear that if a person or ATS can get into the "rhythm" of the market, then the TIME to reverse can be "felt" or planned irregardless of the price level. In fact, you talk about trading with the price bars completely OFF the screen just by watching pace and volume indicators.
It's absolutely genius. Jack, THAT is the true essence of your trading skill. I think you're the first to even come close to describing the "knack" for trading that people develop with experience.
Many others can't seem to express why they can trade almost automatically at the right moment.
It will be a challenge for YOU and for ME both to reach the goal. That is, of course, for me to understand and automate your perception.
It seems however, that we need to first stick to getting the channel states sorted out, right? Is that the first step?
We will see that "building" can go in either of two directions: analysis or synthesis. People communicate from these points of view too.
Knowledge and technique are paired for making money. What and why are in the locus of knowledge and the how and when relate to technique. I presume that the B. P. A. will nail the knowledge in a series of steps and the B. P. R. will nail the technique (skill levels) in a series of steps.
Yes. Precisely! I won't bore with all the steps.
One critical step is to agree on specific terminology. It helped IMMENSELY that you have a glossary of terms on that website.
One example, in my question earlier, if envelopes and boundaries actually refer to channels and channel lines, then it can help for both of us to remain extremely consistent in the terminology. Your point about "confusion" below, demonstrates this point, I think.
Of course, if you need to use various synonyms because you feel that's necessary to convey accurate meaning. Fine. We simply need to clarify if they're exact synonyms or some technical nuance exists between meanings.
Frankly, it will be less work for everyone if we stick to the same term when we're talking about the same thing.
There is a tweak or caveat about how certainty and sufficiency connect to each other to have this happen. I am studying up on how confusion can contribute, I haven't gotten involved in that too much.
That's funny. I thought confusion was you're idea. Maybe you used a different word. Therein lies the need for both of us to make sure we use the same terminology.
Here's your bit of wisdom I was refering to:
On the site traderuniverse.com you talk about beginners needing to trade during market conditions or setups they understand. You recommend sidelining if you feel you don't understand what's happening. I think you wrote something like, "you must know what's going on at all times".
I call that situation that prompts sidelining "Confused".
For an ATS, it's necessary to handle confusion explicitly since that "gate" to trading for humans is based on intuition which, sadly, computers can't seem to must up even an ounce of that amazing stuff.
Frankly, Jack, a number of points will come up where you do things on pure intuition and experience. For you, it's like driving a car. We think of it as simple, eyes on the road, steering wheel, pedals--but the reality is that there's a myriad details our brains is processing in parallel at all times.
The real challenge will be in finding clear definition for human intuition.
Again, confusion was your idea. We just need to agree on the term to use for it. Have a better suggestion?
For both certainty and sufficiency I don't feel it is possible to skip steps when going from the general to the intimate. Just drilling down and just using the intimate doesn't happen to work out. The sweeps chart shows a little about this as it STOPS the drilling by using the MODE blocker (stops the drilling down when sufficiency is there to get certainty) called Continue.
That makes complete sense. That's the holistic aspect of you trading you discuss.
So it sounds like you agree on getting the channeling working correctly first.
Again, correct anything I misunderstand, please. That's your role--to constantly correct till I get it right.
Trading does not deal in opposites but instead it deals with orthogonals. End effects are called Change (which is a descriptor of Sentiment change)(directional flow change).
Can you please give an example of CW (conventional wisdom) of opposites and contrast it with the related orthogonal concept?
Wow, this is super exciting. I'm glad you are participating in the B.P.A.
One final note is your excellent assumption at the difference in BPA and BPR of knowledge before technique.
BPA and BPR can be done iteratively just as you discuss iterative refinement.
So we get a part of the knowledge and apply that. Then add some more, and apply that, etc.
Everything you said in your discussion applies here about needing to get a "belief" in the channels by making some profits. That reinforces and builds on the belief.
While as a developer of an ATS I won't have to deal with the human issues of live trading pressure, I do have to deal with maintaining enthusiasm for doing all this work. Any amount of financial reward, however small at first will build steam and enthusiasm to stick to it.
In most ways, you should treat me as you do any newbie, avid learner of your methods.
For example, I plan for for the ATS to generate a LOG exactly like the type of log you keep your self of it's MADA decisions. That way I can post the log and the chart each day or whenever we agree and scrutinize it using terms and methods familiar to yourself.
I'll post my chart, but eventually I want to make it look exactly as you're comfortable with seeing.
Of course, only difference is that the ATS chart gets completely generated by computer including all the annotations, lines, notes, etc.
Finally, do you feel comfortable so far with this approach I'm taking after reading that website?
Do we continue with just getting the channels correctly automated to start some small profits on a test account and go from there?
I expect to be at that point of handling channels within a week to 2 weeks at the outside.
Then we move to step two. And that will be logical as it can help resolve the flaws or confusion points of the channeling algorithm.
Sincerely,
Wayne
