How to be a good VENDOR on ET

[Trend Fader]

Quote from Joseph Pipp:

I have to disagree with Trend Fader's point on track records. If a "guru" is selling his sytem based on track record, then yes he should pony up. But, track record means nothing to being able to teach. I have successfully made a great living for 10 years trading, but I couldn't teach a person to trade if my lfe depended on it. I am simply not able to verbalize what I do nor am I patient enough with a newbie. I have had people who helped me considerably along the way who couldn't put it together with their own trading, but understood perfectly what should be done and gave great feedback about what I was doing.

I hate the vendors trolling on this site more than the next guy does, but to blanket say they should show their track records or they are no good is absurd. If they are selling a system that requires no understanding but simply execution, then a track record is vital.

In general, I am opposed to selling training at all. I learned from experienced people who passed on their knowledge and always attempt to do the same (although as I earlier admitted, teaching is not my strong point.)

Trading is an art. It is not a specific science with absolute rules. Teaching an art is next to impossible and anyone who promises to teach you an art without knowing what your tlent for that art is beforehand is nuts. You can no sooner teach some people trading than Picasso who teach me to paint. I maxed out at crayons as my medium.

I disagree... what makes a good math professor. Someone that knows math and someone that knows how to explain it.

To be a mentor.. not only do u have to be a good trader u also have to know how to help other traders achieve.

Paramount to being a good explainer or hand holder.. u have to know your shit and back it up.

Why anyone would listen to someone that does not provide solid credentials.. is beyond me.

 

[gnome]

Quote from Trend Fader:

Paramount to being a good explainer or hand holder.. u have to know your shit and back it up.

Sounds like a thankless job...

 

[Trend Fader]

Quote from gnome:

Sounds like a thankless job...

You can make a good living. Lets say you made $1mil each last 5 years and can prove it. You like to help people and need a solid income post trading.

You decide you dont want to trade because you are burnt out.. You can easily become a mentor and give seminars and crap on the weekends and can probably make an easy $100k a year.

 

[gnome]

Quote from Trend Fader:

You can make a good living. Lets say you made $1mil each last 5 years and can prove it. You like to help people and need a solid income post trading.

You decide you dont want to trade because you are burnt out.. You can easily become a mentor and give seminars and crap on the weekends and can probably make an easy $100k a year.

Isn't that how WizeTrade got started?

 

[winter]

Quote from Joseph Pipp:

I have to disagree with Trend Fader's point on track records. If a "guru" is selling his sytem based on track record, then yes he should pony up. But, track record means nothing to being able to teach. I have successfully made a great living for 10 years trading, but I couldn't teach a person to trade if my lfe depended on it. I am simply not able to verbalize what I do nor am I patient enough with a newbie. I have had people who helped me considerably along the way who couldn't put it together with their own trading, but understood perfectly what should be done and gave great feedback about what I was doing.

There are many sports analogies here (great coaches who were only mediocre athletes) but as far as I know, there is no genetic component to being a great trader, personally I would be somewhat suspect of taking advice from someone who claims that they know what needs to be done to be a great trader but for some odd reason cannot follow the own advice and actually perform.

At the very least, if the person who is offering to mentor you is not able to make money following their own advice I think that too needs to be stated up-front rather than simplying hiding behind the claim that they can't show their performance record for legal reasons.

 

[OddTrader]

Quote from candletrader:

The handful of vendors that I personally recommend to newer traders include Brandon at www.tradingfrommainstreet.com, threei at www.realitytrader.com and Tony Oz at www.tonyoz.com... I do not hesitate to recommend such educators to newer traders, so that they can get through their learning curve with enough capital left over in order to make a living from this game...

Are they your mentors before? If not, who was/were your mentor(s)?

Do you know who were the mentors, and their names, of these three mentors, as it seems you know very well about them? Thanks.

Just curious!

 

[electron]

Quote from candletrader:

I don't feel that an audited track record is necessary... what is necessary is a toolbox that vendors can provide newer traders with, so that newer traders have a better chance of making it through the learning curve...
Candletrader

Precisely, I could not agree more.

It's all about tools and that's about the only thing a vendor can be expected to provide. The trader has yet to gain experience in trading and in using the tools and we all know that some are just not cut out for this no matter how good tools they use. It's even better for them to develop their own tools so that they trust them more, but if someone can do this job for you there is nothing wrong with that. Obviously, the point is to find someone you can trust and we know that most cannot be trusted.

I had to develop my own tools ultimately, but if I had someone to help me out with that I would not mind that at all. I gained a lot from the experience of one of my friends, but that was only much later on and his help was not so critical then. I believe however that a hypothetical track record is a bare minimum or a free reasonably long trial (2-4 weeks) if the tool is in the form of indicators and not a complete system. Many out there are selling crude ideas and not workable implementations. I believe that ideas should be freely available to everyone, but as someone who had to put in a good deal of time to arrive at my current tools, I will never part with the best of them without being paid for them handsomely. (Now, I am not selling anything, so please no PMs...)

Obviously an audited track record is unlikely to hurt any vendor's reputation if it is good, so I don't mind if a vendor provides one, but I do not insist on that. The vendor's job is to provide tools and evidence that they work. Your job is to figure out if the vendor is a con artist before you pay him for his stuff. This is where ET comes in as a very handy tool.

 

[dalodoma]

To anyone here on this thread, how did you develop your own system if you have no mentor or vendor that provided you with one to begin with? Did you just learn from mistakes?

 

[candletrader]

Quote from OddTrader:

Are they your mentors before? If not, who was/were your mentor(s)?

Do you know who were the mentors, and their names, of these three mentors, as it seems you know very well about them? Thanks.

Just curious!

I learnt a lot from Vad on Siliconinvestor, back in the days when SI was the main forum for traders... Vad's material on SI saved my ass and I have prospered since...

I have a couple of Tony's books, which have proved very valuable (http://www.elitetrader.com/bo/index.cfm?action=view&B_ID=5&CatID=1)...

Vad, Tony and Brandon are all respected oldtimers, who I have come across in various contexts over the years...

 

[Lamont_C]

Quote from winter:



At the very least, if the person who is offering to mentor you is not able to make money following their own advice I think that too needs to be stated up-front rather than simplying hiding behind the claim that they can't show their performance record for legal reasons.

Exactly.

Teaching someone how to develop a trading system is distinct from teaching somebody how to trade, particularly if the "teacher" is teaching his own system.

There are a number of good sources for learning how to create a system. But before I go to the time and trouble and usually expense of learning somebody else's system, I want to know that the creator has been consistently profitable with it.