How stupid are Republicans?

[Free Thinker]

Quote from CaptainObvious:

You only need to understand republican ideology to make sense of it. Taxing individuals...good, very good. Taxing corporations...bad, very bad.
With Cains plan tax on individuals will go up, while corporate taxes will be slashed. All of course on the premise that this will somehow create jobs. These are the same dopes that say the consumer drives the economy, but now we're going to add 9% in cost to every single item we purchase to an already cash strapped consumer, and this is going to grow the economy? Utterly jaw dropping stupidity.

wow. i just saw this post quoted. you make good sense. makes me wonder how you got put on ignore. i am going to take you off ignore right now.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Mercor:

Corporate taxes all get passed to the consumer. Lower taxes may or may not create jobs.
Do you think corporations will live with less margin in order to keep retail prices the same while paying more Government taxes.
Corporations work every day to maximize margins. If they are stuck with added costs in the form of taxes they will need to offset that expense somewhere else, probably through less labor or higher prices

corporations always charge what the market will bear. it has nothing to do with the tax they may pay. in a free market competition is the only cap on prices.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Quote from Mercor:

Corporate taxes all get passed to the consumer. Lower taxes may or may not create jobs.
Do you think corporations will live with less margin in order to keep retail prices the same while paying more Government taxes.
Corporations work every day to maximize margins. If they are stuck with added costs in the form of taxes they will need to offset that expense somewhere else, probably through less labor or higher prices

And your point is what? It's no news that corporations pass it on to the consumer. Just explain to me how adding 9% to the cost of every single purchase will drive consumer spending. I hope you're not going to suggest that the savings from corporate tax reduction will be passed on to the consumer in the form of reduced prices. And historical evidence has already proven that lower tax rates do nothing to create jobs. So where's the benefit, other than putting more money in the pockets of the boardroom boyz?

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Free Thinker:

income taxes are a much fairer way to tax. sales taxes and property taxes ect hit people without means more than people with means. people with no ability to make income are required to pay the same tax as a billionaire. morally unfair.

with income taxes the government only benefits if you enjoy prosperity. they have an incentive to create conditions where you will be able to make income.
the graduated income tax is the fairest way to tax. it is the loopholes that make it unfair.

i would love a national sales tax ,instead of an income tax, that exempted necessities like food. i would pay next to nothing. i am out of my household formation years. everything i own,house vehicles ect are paid for. i already have everything i need. i dont hire outside help for anything. the only thing i spend discretionary money on is travel but if it were heavily taxed i would stop. how would the government collect the money it needs from self sufficient people like me with a national sales tax?

tariffs are another matter. we might even agree on that one.

The national sales tax as I understand it would not be applied to food, basic clothing, school supplies, medicine or gas. In other words, it would only hit the poor if they are buying things they should NOT be buying.

They are also talking about giving tax credits to poor neighborhoods to offset the tax. I don't think I like that idea as I can count all the ways from Sunday that can get corrupted. The sales tax is fair because the poor would be exempt from it for the most part and the rich can't get around it with tax shelters and offshore trusts. As it stands now, the rich pay almost nothing in taxes and never will because they don't have "earned income". They OWN.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from CaptainObvious:

And your point is what? It's no news that corporations pass it on to the consumer. Just explain to me how adding 9% to the cost of every single purchase will drive consumer spending. I hope you're not going to suggest that the savings from corporate tax reduction will be passed on to the consumer in the form of reduced prices. And historical evidence has already proven that lower tax rates do nothing to create jobs. So where's the benefit, other than putting more money in the pockets of the boardroom boyz?

If you cut income taxes, people will spend more. We saw that very clearly when Bush gave out the bullshit tax rebate checks that went straight to Best Buy. We are a consumer nation Captain, no amount of sales tax is going to keep Americans from the mall. Trust me.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Quote from Maverick74:

The national sales tax as I understand it would not be applied to food, basic clothing, school supplies, medicine or gas. In other words, it would only hit the poor if they are buying things they should NOT be buying.

They are also talking about giving tax credits to poor neighborhoods to offset the tax. I don't think I like that idea as I can count all the ways from Sunday that can get corrupted. The sales tax is fair because the poor would be exempt from it for the most part and the rich can't get around it with tax shelters and offshore trusts. As it stands now, the rich pay almost nothing in taxes and never will because they don't have "earned income". They OWN.

As you understand it? Just where are you getting this understanding from? I have yet to see anything that identifies what you're claiming. Far as I've seen and heard it's an across the board tax on everything.
Show me the specifics in the plan to support your "understanding".

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Maverick74:


The sales tax is fair because the poor would be exempt from it for the most part and the rich can't get around it with tax shelters and offshore trusts. As it stands now, the rich pay almost nothing in taxes and never will because they don't have "earned income". They OWN.

the rich could easily get around it by not spending. ever hear of warren buffett. he like to brag that he lives in the same house for 50 years and drives an old car. he would pay less than he does now. i could see a case there the worlds richest man, if he were frugal, could escape all taxation.

i guarantee you i would pay less with a sales tax. i can see all kinds of ways to beat it. wouldnt it be easier to just do away with the tax shelters?

 

[CaptainObvious]

Quote from Maverick74:

If you cut income taxes, people will spend more. We saw that very clearly when Bush gave out the bullshit tax rebate checks that went straight to Best Buy. We are a consumer nation Captain, no amount of sales tax is going to keep Americans from the mall. Trust me.

But the reality is taxes will go up for the majority of working class people. They will end up with less money in their pocket, not more.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/05/336649/cain-999-analysis-deficits/

From the article:
Linden also found that someone in the bottom quintile of earners — who currently pays about 2 percent of his or her income in federal taxes — would pay about 18 percent under Cain’s plan (9 percent on every dollar they make, plus 9 percent on every dollar they spent, which would likely be close to all of them). A middle-class individual would see his or her taxes go from about 14 percent to about 18 percent. But someone in the richest one percent of Americans would see his or her tax rate fall from about 28 percent to about 11 percent.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Free Thinker:

the rich could easily get around it by not spending. ever hear of warren buffett. he like to brag that he lives in the same house for 50 years and drives an old car. he would pay less than he does now. i could see a case there the worlds richest man, if he were frugal, could escape all taxation.

wouldnt it be easier to just do away with the tax shelters?

Yes, the billionaires may not spend, but a majority of the people making 500k to 10 million a year spend like drunken sailors. I have spent enough time in NY and LA to see how these people spend. Or I should say over spend.

You can't get rid of tax shelters because most of them are offshore!!!! We have no jurisdiction in other countries. One of the most famous is the Cook Island Trusts. Look it up.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from CaptainObvious:

But the reality is taxes will go up for the majority of working class people. They will end up with less money in their pocket, not more.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/05/336649/cain-999-analysis-deficits/

From the article:
Linden also found that someone in the bottom quintile of earners — who currently pays about 2 percent of his or her income in federal taxes — would pay about 18 percent under Cain’s plan (9 percent on every dollar they make, plus 9 percent on every dollar they spent, which would likely be close to all of them). A middle-class individual would see his or her taxes go from about 14 percent to about 18 percent. But someone in the richest one percent of Americans would see his or her tax rate fall from about 28 percent to about 11 percent.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

Do you some "real" research.