How much should one make to prove himself a good daytrader?

Yes...ok...good point...but lets look deeper...what if it were not a newbie and he ranked the trade?

now there is a monster thread for this.--are good traders better gamblers?



http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47844-...---what say you!
Quote from ess1096:

I'll use an example to show why I believe the "MYTH" that risk management is #1 priority..

Tony Oz, in the book "The Stock Trader", made a profit of $16,000 + in four weeks trading a $50, 000 account. A 32.55% return in a month.(he didn't compound either) He made 116 trades, 75 winners & 41 losers. He used a trading plan based on support and resistance and always knew where he wanted to get out if the trade went wrong.

Now, suppose some newbie entered the market with a $50,000 account at the exact same time as Tony and he "speculated" that the QQQ (symbol at the time) was overbought. Mr. Newbie puts ALL $50,000, his entire account in a single short position of QQQ. Newbie would have made a hell of a profit in those four weeks. Much more than Tony Oz did with his well thought out plan.

Now, to the OP's question, is the newbie a better trader than Tony Oz just because he made more money? I think not.
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well now were talking about the whole account...i see,,,which in fact your hypothetical example brings out...but what if ..it was not a newbie....then there can be a discussion about number of trades I guess...


Is daytrading harder than swing trading? does frequency and size have anything to do with trader excellence?

ess...your thoughts on management....and win rates and profit factors...can all become blurred when trades are ranked or frequencies changed...I think :)

I believe time in market with exposure to risk to bag profit also is a benchmark...but that would be me...as timing would have a lot to do with trader excellence then...

at the end of the day...he who can walk the walk and handle the pressure of the shear size of large dollars...cannot be discounted either....

Can Bill Gates spend all of his money? what drives him?



Quote from ess1096:

Well, that is where opinions will differ. My opinion is if it were not a newbie he would not have put his entire account into a single position. Been there, done that, got burned and learned.
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Quote from worthytwo:

.. How much should one make per year to be a good trader ..
Just wanna know your opinion:D
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all you need is consistent 4P a day
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While i am posting....let me ramble a bit....

Each day is a new day...some days move in chop...some in trend...

there are different traders....they trade chop and they trade trend...

then there is excellence...those that recognize this....

now lets assume some traders believe that it is all about timing...where others believe its about management...

others believe its a gamble....

all of this....makes the market...

Good traders....well this is a tricky question...Can we put this in a "can"....are there any good traders here?... that have walked the walk....:)

some of us feel that we want to take all that the market can give....we try to jump in during a move and grab some with high probability entries during the storm...this is timing...where others try to swing the tops and bottoms which is predicting....its tuff to be a good trader...and its tough to benchmark it....beating your own benchmarks may be where it is at, for many...
 
Personally....if I or you measure my life as a trader....I am an utter failure.

but...recently things are good....but it means jack in the big picture...there is no way I can make up for the years I have wasted. It's chasing a bad trade and I gave up...i just could not get it soon enough to erase the waste...

Now do I deserve to be a "good trader" ....it just does not matter...i write here in ET and have learned a lot...i see some winners come and go...what do I know however who the hell am I? If the essence of good trading is identified and the path to follow were clear...well then this thread may be about obtaining failure....right?

I can only share and enjoy the ETer's....I like the new traders best....

Michael B.
 
Quote from ess1096:

I'll use an example to show why I believe the "MYTH" that risk management is #1 priority..

Tony Oz, in the book "The Stock Trader", made a profit of $16,000 + in four weeks trading a $50, 000 account. A 32.55% return in a month.(he didn't compound either) He made 116 trades, 75 winners & 41 losers. He used a trading plan based on support and resistance and always knew where he wanted to get out if the trade went wrong.

Now, suppose some newbie entered the market with a $50,000 account at the exact same time as Tony and he "speculated" that the QQQ (symbol at the time) was overbought. Mr. Newbie puts ALL $50,000, his entire account in a single short position of QQQ. Newbie would have made a hell of a profit in those four weeks. Much more than Tony Oz did with his well thought out plan.

Now, to the OP's question, is the newbie a better trader than Tony Oz just because he made more money? I think not.
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You just reminded me why I hardly come here... because we're all stuck in the NEWBIE world. When I say a trader, I mean a TRADER making multiple trades, and trade for a living.

A newbie doesn't count. What I am talking about is seasoned veterans and money managers that can iron out at least $100,000+ from the market year in and year out.

I am out, and I have a hard time believing if you, or either Electric are profitable traders.
 
Quote from ElectricSavant:


some of us feel that we want to take all that the market can give....we try to jump in during a move and grab some with high probability entries during the storm...this is timing...where others try to swing the tops and bottoms which is predicting....its tuff to be a good trader...and its tough to benchmark it....beating your own benchmarks may be where it is at, for many...
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Excellent summary! I couldn't agree more.
Your last comment reminds me of the strategy that Dorian Yates followed when he was Mr. Olympia. He said he never considered the competition as he prepared to compete, he only tried to beat his own performance year after year. Speaking in the third person durring his post Olympia interview, circa 1997, he said "I only try to beat the Dorian Yates of last year."
 
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