How much one can earn daily in intraday trading?

[Xela]

I don't think its nearly as risky as opening a bricks and mortar business, getting a lease, hiring staff etc then nobody turns up.

It takes years of practice finding out what works for you

In many ways it's actually safer.

I agree with the above.

Intraday trading isn't "dangerous"; it's the majority of the aspiring traders attracted to it and trying to do it who are "dangerous".

This is one of the very few issues around trading over which I've ever significantly disagreed with Tomorton (and I've been discussing trading with him for a long time!).

In my opinion, asking why intraday trading is higher-risk than longer-term trading is very like asking why spot-forex trading is higher-risk than trading other asset classes. It just isn't: it's simply that the majority of the people drawn to it have attitudes and behaviours that are "higher-risk", and that collectively makes the activity itself appear that way.

The reality is very different.

The key point (almost never discussed!) is that because of the square-root-based overall mathematical relationship between time-frames and volatility, in practice the increased trading opportunities afforded by faster trading more than compensate for what people mistakenly/lazily think of as "increased noise" and make intraday trading more potentially profitable for the very small minority of successful traders with the appropriate risk management and trade management skills, understanding and experience.

"Just my perspective".

 

[d08]

The problem is that this is all detail , you can lose slow or fast , safe or risky , but the only thing that really counts in the end is having a positive probability on your trades. However careful /clever your money management , you won't win in the end without it , but with it , relatively poor money management plans etc will come out ahead in the end as long as you keep going and don't lose it all in one go, get your probability up over say 75% and you'll have a hard job losing, and not ending up very wealthy.
My recommendation is cast everything aside and chase deeper and harder higher probability trades.

If the losses are much bigger than wins, high probability won't help you. I've had 90% likelihood systems that blow up with a few losses. There's also black swan events, typically a trading plan is based on what has happened in the past, the future however likes to surprise us. If you start talking hypothetical scenarios then your sizing will be much more conservative to the point that trading it won't be worthwhile.

 

[Canoe007]

.. the only thing that really counts in the end is having a positive probability on your trades...

I wouldn't say it is the only thing, but I agree very strongly that it is the most important thing for profitability.

 

[Xela]

My recommendation is cast everything aside and chase deeper and harder for higher probability trades.

Sorry to sound so critical, but I really think (for all the reasons discussed and explained in detail in some of rin4et's threads here over recent weeks/months) this is just awful advice, and a dreadfully misguided approach.

 

[henry76]

In reply to do8 I realise that you can interpret probability as a win loss loss ratio , but short of a very long winded explanation of what I mean by probability I went with the short handed version , perhaps I should have said overall probability but I think the sentiment is clear.

 

[tomorton]

But why is it objectively riskier? Intraday trading itself is not riskier, it's that it attracts people with a gambler mentality and/or people with small account sizes. With someone who is systematic and follows a plan, it's no more no less riskier than daily/weekly.

Yes, I agree its not objectively riskier, I said so too. But the people who do it and they way they do it make it so. If we accept that 90% of new traders fail very quickly, these two factors - the profile of the new traders plus their behaviour - must account for 90% of these failures. That's 90% of the 90%.

Its like the young guys (and it is usually young guys we're talking about both here and in trading) who drive Audis and BMWs. Objectively, these are not the only fast cars on the road and they're not any riskier to drive than any other. And there's no objective reason why buyers of these makes of car would drive like they do. But they do.

 

[Metamega]

I agree with the above.

Intraday trading isn't "dangerous"; it's the majority of the aspiring traders attracted to it and trying to do it who are "dangerous".

This is one of the very few issues around trading over which I've ever significantly disagreed with Tomorton (and I've been discussing trading with him for a long time!).

In my opinion, asking why intraday trading is higher-risk than longer-term trading is very like asking why spot-forex trading is higher-risk than trading other asset classes. It just isn't: it's simply that the majority of the people drawn to it have attitudes and behaviours that are "higher-risk", and that collectively makes the activity itself appear that way.

The reality is very different.

The key point (almost never discussed!) is that because of the square-root-based overall mathematical relationship between time-frames and volatility, in practice the increased trading opportunities afforded by faster trading more than compensate for what people mistakenly/lazily think of as "increased noise" and make intraday trading more potentially profitable for the very small minority of successful traders with the appropriate risk management and trade management skills, understanding and experience.

"Just my perspective".

Well said.

Can’t remember ever seeing a thread here where someone had reasonable expectations.


“ Looking to become a trader guys. I have two years living expenses aside and 50k to start trading with. I plan on risking .5% of my account while beginning live trading just to get my feet wet while I hone my strategy and system.”

Never seen that thread.

The common thread is
“ I have 5k and need to pay my rent and bills and grow my account, how do I find the biggest stocks on the move”.

That’s the common thread.

 

[d08]

In reply to do8 I realise that you can interpret probability as a win loss loss ratio , but short of a very long winded explanation of what I mean by probability I went with the short handed version , perhaps I should have said overall probability but I think the sentiment is clear.

Perhaps you meant risk vs reward or return vs drawdown, that makes much more sense to me.

 

[nooby_mcnoob]

I don't think its nearly as risky as opening a bricks and mortar business, getting a lease, hiring staff etc then nobody turns up.

I regret but I can only quote once without spamming.

Everything is high risk if you don't plan adequately, trading cannot be any different in that regard.

 

[nooby_mcnoob]

“ Looking to become a trader guys. I have two years living expenses aside and 50k to start trading with. I plan on risking .5% of my account while beginning live trading just to get my feet wet while I hone my strategy and system.”

Hey, I said almost this!