How much do you REALLY make trading?

Mir · Mar 17, 2003

Yannis,

I totally agree with almost everything you said except when you stated that you don't want to post how you are doing. My post (a few pages ago) was quite serious, and, as our President likes to say, I EXPECT that other serious traders follow suit. Don't worry too much about the stupids - they are (like mosquitos in Alabama) everywhere. Not that I am dying from curiosity, but it is better to do something than talk about something - and even better to take both paths in parallel. So, get off your butt, sit down and do it!

Yannis · Mar 18, 2003

OK Mir,

You asked and you shall be given...

I too trade several instruments in various combinations and with various techniques and tools.

In my daytrading, I first focus on extracting 2-4 points per ES or 5-10 points per NQ every day. Usually this takes the morning, sometimes less than that. As my consistency over the months improved, the number of contracts I traded also rose. It's a good living.

Over the past six months, I have managed to achieve the equivalent weekly result in all but a single week. One out of every five days is at b/e or slightly in the red - but I don't let things get out of hand: if there are two losses, about 4 ES points or 10 NQ points, in the red, I force myself to take the rest of the day off. That happens about one out of every 10-12 days.

After that's done, I stop and usually play around with various other tools (trading-related R&D accounts for a significant portion of my time.) Depending on the day, in the afternoon, I often return to live trading and use a different technique - attempting to get another 1-2 points per contract. It really feels like a new trading day: on the good side, I know a lot more about that day's market; on the bad side, I sometimes feel tired.

Very often I get that done too, and go for a walk or run or pick my daughter up from school.

This approach was crafted (and I'm still improving it) because I've discovered that I'm better at stalking the high probability trades than pouncing at everything that moves.

Early in the morning or over the weekends I trade different accounts using daily and/or weekly charts.

limitdown · Mar 26, 2003

On face value:

99 persons at 38.37% respondents earn over $50,000yr
84 persons at 32.56% respondents are unprofitable
57 persons at 22.09% respondents are at Break Even

on face value 22.09% respondents were honest

on face value+1, 32.56% respondents were totally believable

on face value-1, 38.37% respondents enjoy telling tales

Kernol · Mar 26, 2003

Just thought I would throw this out there as to what is (or maybe was) possible. I watched a "gentleman" with experience in the pits take $1,000 a month out of his $1,000 account.

He did this month after month and called in his trades.

Yannis · Mar 26, 2003

Quote from limitdown:

On face value:

99 persons at 38.37% respondents earn over $50,000yr
84 persons at 32.56% respondents are unprofitable
57 persons at 22.09% respondents are at Break Even

on face value 22.09% respondents were honest

on face value+1, 32.56% respondents were totally believable

on face value-1, 38.37% respondents enjoy telling tales

limitdown,

I don't get your math - can you explain?

I think you have somewhere in the back of your head something like "90% of traders lose money" which in itself is unproven, and therefore you feel that this good looking distribution must be out of wack.

Have you factored in the expectation that the sample is greatly skewed towards those who make money, because if you don't you don't keep trading for long and you certainly don't feel like publicizing it?

limitdown · Mar 26, 2003

Quote from Yannis:

limitdown,

I don't get your math - can you explain?

I think you have somewhere in the back of your head something like "90% of traders lose money" which in itself is unproven, and therefore you feel that this good looking distribution must be out of wack.

Have you factored in the expectation that the sample is greatly skewed towards those who make money, because if you don't you don't keep trading for long and you certainly don't feel like publicizing it?

click on vote results,
copy down the details just like I did
see the exact match on the numbers, just like I did, before it changes

what's your question?

FRuiTY PeBBLe · Mar 26, 2003

$3 billion/year

FRuiTY

Yannis · Mar 27, 2003

Quote from limitdown:

click on vote results,
copy down the details just like I did
see the exact match on the numbers, just like I did, before it changes

what's your question?

limitdown,

I think the source of my confusion was that when I looked at the numbers, after reading your message, they had changed a bit and I could not see the one-to-one correspondence.

Of course, I still disagree that the results are telling us that so many respondents lied about their situation. At best, we have to say that we don't REALLY know, which is true for most surveys. Looking at patterns over time or across groups may be more reliable.

I took part in that poll and I told the truth - therefore, the only sane thing for me to do is to assume that everyone else did the same.

People that are so stupid as to lie when responding to an anonymous survey, for no benefit at all, can't really type, so we shouldn't worry about that group skewing the results