How much do you need to realistically make it?
- Thread starter midlifeguy
- Start date
I am thinking of being a full time day trader with about $180,000. Am I nuts? I plan to keep $50,000 in cash.
The more skillful the trader, the less account $ he needs to "make" it.
Every year I get better as a trader, I realize I can do this with less and less account money. Of course, that means trading instruments with large leverage like SIFs.
For equities, I honestly believe you need at least $50k to start with, and be able to maintain that at all times. That is bear bear minimum if you have living expenses money in addition to the $50k, or a job with a steady pacheck.
That is why equity professional firms exist that allow you to put $5k - $25K and have access to millions of dollars to be able to get an edge in equities. You can do it on less, but you have to be exceptionally good.
nitro
Every year I get better as a trader, I realize I can do this with less and less account money. Of course, that means trading instruments with large leverage like SIFs.
For equities, I honestly believe you need at least $50k to start with, and be able to maintain that at all times. That is bear bear minimum if you have living expenses money in addition to the $50k, or a job with a steady pacheck.
That is why equity professional firms exist that allow you to put $5k - $25K and have access to millions of dollars to be able to get an edge in equities. You can do it on less, but you have to be exceptionally good.
nitro
That's always been the question I've had -- how much would you leave in your futures account to trade, relative to what you use? For those already successful and not still on a learning curve, wouldn't it make sense in highly leveragable instruments to just leave a "minimum" amount in one's account to cover what size you can comfortably trade? Otherwise, what would you need the rest of the money for, if not just more rope to hang yourself with?
In equities you can get away with maxing out your buying power during the day (2-1 definitely, 4-1 maybe not so much, depending on which stock you trade) and not put your account in jeopardy; in futures it can be pretty much suicidal. That is the irony though, as I've always figured the safest road would be to leave just a portion of one's funds in a futures account at any given time. Thoughts?
In equities you can get away with maxing out your buying power during the day (2-1 definitely, 4-1 maybe not so much, depending on which stock you trade) and not put your account in jeopardy; in futures it can be pretty much suicidal. That is the irony though, as I've always figured the safest road would be to leave just a portion of one's funds in a futures account at any given time. Thoughts?
In futures, I have between 3 and 6 contracts on and have gone as high as 10 contracts on big edges. If you are good, you can easily make $50k a year doing 3 to 6 contracts, and if you are exceptionally good, $100k/yr on that size. The better you are (more accuraretly the more experienced you are), the more likely you are to put on size when the edge is big. That is why I always have my account full to the gills - because I don't know when I will want to use the leverage, and the edge could be fleeting by the time I wire money in and is available.
nitro
i feel the same way regarding size,IMO,.....there are going to be 2 to 3 all in trades per year,it is up to us #1. to recognize it in the making.....#2.to act upon it with complete conviction,which is the hard part.missing one of these trades can make me sick for days......these are the trades that put us above & beyond for the year & turns a mediocre year into a potentially great one......& forget about waiting for a wire transfer to hit your acct....that opportunity will be a vapor trail.as soros has stated,when you are right,you can`t have enough of it & that`s what makes him the superstar that he is,goes for the jugular when it presents itself.....michael marcus uttered the same in wizards....small loss,small loss,a breakeven then double your money.
I may not be the guy to ask, but since you did, I'll give an answer. I think, if you're already an accomplished trade on a part time basis, and your study and experience tells you there are trades you're missing as the result of other obligations(job) it's worthy of serious consideration. There are many things to consider, not the least of which is the pressure that'll come with trading being your only source of income. Can you let your trading stategies play out like you do now, or will you jump the gun getting in/out of trades sooner than you normally would? The hard truth is you probably won't know that for sure until you've already made the leap into full time trading. IMO, the slower the transfer from part time trader to full time the better off you'll be in the long run.
Good luck with your decision!
I think that if you are going to start any kind of risky venture, either trading or starting a new business, you will need to either:
1. Live with your parents
2. Live in a paid-for house with minimum expenses
3. If too old for 1, then have a spouse with a steady income that will support you in your venture.
4. or, Have some kind of pre-existing business that will give you some passive income for at least 1 year (real-estate income, web business, or maybe even some part-time gig)
Otherwise, you'll just piss away hard saved (after-tax) money or worse, get into debt.
I know, we always hear about that guy that mortgaged his house to start the business and became a billionaire in the process. But, what we never hear about is those hundred of guys that failed and bankrupted themselves and their family. (Kinda like trading without a stop, actually)
1. Live with your parents
2. Live in a paid-for house with minimum expenses
3. If too old for 1, then have a spouse with a steady income that will support you in your venture.
4. or, Have some kind of pre-existing business that will give you some passive income for at least 1 year (real-estate income, web business, or maybe even some part-time gig)
Otherwise, you'll just piss away hard saved (after-tax) money or worse, get into debt.
I know, we always hear about that guy that mortgaged his house to start the business and became a billionaire in the process. But, what we never hear about is those hundred of guys that failed and bankrupted themselves and their family. (Kinda like trading without a stop, actually)