How much do day traders make

galvinlee888 said:
You at least making the real money, much better than those psycho that claim to make 300% return consistently for 20 year.
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No, Jack1960 claimed 30-50% year after year, not 300%. I really like to know if that is possible and if so how.
 
ironchef said:
No, Jack1960 claimed 30-50% year after year, not 300%. I really like to know if that is possible and if so how.
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You should at least make the difference between short term traders and long term traders.

Shortterm (like daytraders) make much higher returns as their trading is completely different:
  • LT traders:30-50% is excellent.
  • ST traders:30-50% is lousy.
You cannot compare the two based on returns.
 
Mtrader said:
You should at least make the difference between short term traders and long term traders.

Shortterm (like daytraders) make much higher returns as their trading is completely different:
  • LT traders:30-50% is excellent.
  • ST traders:30-50% is lousy.
You cannot compare the two based on returns.
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Thank you for your answer.

But he said year after year, would that be similar to LT traders and would that be excellent instead of lousy?

A different question, how easy/difficult it is for ST traders to make 30-50% year after year based on your experience?
 
ironchef said:
Thank you for your answer.

But he said year after year, would that be similar to LT traders and would that be excellent instead of lousy?
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Year after year does not mean similar. But for many daytraders making 30% a year would be excellent. For others it would be a real disaster. All depends of your expectations and abilities. I have a friend who is happy if he can make $2-3000 a month. There is no general rule.

If an athlete would run the marathon in 5 hours it would be a bad result. If I would ever be able to reach the finish no matter in how many hours or even days, it would be extremely excellent. The same applies on trading or anything else.

Daytrading:
  • High leverage
  • Close stops
  • Lots of trades
Long term:
  • No high leverage
  • No close stops
  • Not many trades
So the way of trading is completely different.
A daytrader should mathematically always beat the return of LT traders.
A good LT trader can beat a lousy daytrader, so all depends on the trader himself.

ironchef said:
A different question, how easy/difficult it is for ST traders to make 30-50% year after year based on your experience?
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The same remark: Some make it, some don'’t. Some lose a fortune and some make a fortune.
Each person should try to find on himself what is realistically achievable or not.

It took me 10 years to become consistent profitable. That means not losing money, which is not equal to making lots of money. But other people might be profitable in 1 year and some never achieve to become profitable at all.

I started with forex years ago. The first step was to calculate how much pips I should have to take to make money given a certain amount of capital and the margin I would use. I put all this in an Excel and started to make simulations of different combinations of profit per trade, slippage, commissions and losing trades. Then I watched the results in number of winning trades and average profit per trade, and number of losing trades and average loss per trade.

From the few profitable traders I know, all of them made thousands of hours of research. I think that is unavoidable. A good sportsman has to train also thousands of hours.
 
Mtrader said:
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Tribes in Africa or South America can also not believe that you can take a small plastic box in your hand and speak with somebody who is on the other side of the world. And there is even no cable that connects the 2 phones!...
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I think this is an extreme example in analogy. Think about it.

Tribes like that have no need for long-distance communication.
 
Overnight said:
I think this is an extreme example in analogy. Think about it.

Tribes like that have no need for long-distance communication.
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I did not say they miss it. My point was that they will never believe that these things exist and work. Like people who don't believe you can make X% return a year.

To miss something you should first know about the existance of it. You cannot miss something that for you does not exist.

When I was young we had no internet and no mobile phones. Our children cannot miss them anymore. We didn't miss because we did not know, our children would miss because they do know.

You never miss what you don't know or if you don't know about the existance of the thing you don't miss because you don't know it.:wtf:

:banghead: :D :strong:
 
Mtrader said:
Can you explain it in dutch? Much easier for me. Maybe then I will not miss the point.
:confused:
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If I spoke Dutch, sure. I do not. Basically, you are comparing apples and oranges here. You are comparing African tribes whom have never seen long-distance communication devices with traders who do not know a bit more about the markets they are trading. There is a huge chasm here between the knowledge they need to communicate with tribes at a very long distance from them, as opposed to a trader who does not know how to leverage his product with something he/she does not know about.

Those tribes probably do not need to communicate with tribes on the other side of the world for trading their product, because they have never needed it.

Likewise...If as a trader you are trading a product, and have never needed to trade something on the other side of the world, why would you bother? You never needed it.

I still feel the African tribe analogy is a terrible one. I'd type more, but "The Big Game" is coming on, and I'ma gonna' watch it. So there. :-)
 
Mtrader said:
First read this article and then my remarks about trading.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/02/meet_the_portland_teen_might_a.html

Comment on the article:

the smartest scientists all over the world cannot find a cost-effective way to take the salt out of ocean water, so that we can use it. But a young boy, who had the insight that others did not have, solved probably the problem in a very simple way. Having the right insight is apparently very important besides of being smart and insight can even compensate for lack of intelligence.

Comments on discussion about trading performance:

I think the same applies to trading. The most neglected things a trader needs to become successful is insight and out of the box thinking.

I started like all other people with gathering wisdom about trading. I was hoping to make 1 point a day in the ES. It looked very easy when I watched the charts. But reality showed that making that point was not he problem, but the losing trades were. Keeping the profit was the problem. Consistency!

After many years I did make net 1 point a day consistently. So I thought that I reached my limit as I reached what was before unachievable for me. I could not believe that other traders could make 3-5 points a day consistently.

The years after that, I continued to study and analyze. To make a long story short, I got insights in trading that apparently most don’t have. Whereas 1 point in the ES was almost a miracle years ago, it is now small money and I understand now why it took me so long to make real money. I missed the insights that I have now and that I did not have before. Thinking out of the box was essential for having results.

Like the boy who found what the smartest scientists of the world were not able to find. He analyzed all details and based on that found a solution. Apparently nobody ever used the fact that 90% of the sea water is not bonded to salt. Or maybe nobody even knew that? Insight and out of the box thinking.

That explains also the eternal discussion on ET. People with different knowledge and insights discuss and they both are right. But only from their personal point of view. For them personally what they say is true, but people with less (or no) insight can never understand that what for them is impossible might be possible for others.

Tribes in Africa or South America can also not believe that you can take a small plastic box in your hand and speak with somebody who is on the other side of the world. And there is even no cable that connects the 2 phones!

Message for Trump: this boy is one of those that are building up America's economy, although you want all of them out.
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well done!
where do you trade from mind me asking?
 
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