How much $ did you lose until you made $ trading ?
- Thread starter zanek
- Start date
Less than 10k over 2 yrs....but that's ONLY because I went about it very cautiously. I could have easily lost 50k+
I have him on ignore for sure.. can't stand reading his posts on so many levels, but basically, an FTT is a valid signal for anybody, scalper or trend trader, and his mention of a math relationship between Accum /Dist, volume [gaussians], and price led to some interesting things for me.. but there is no way to know if he developed that stuff along with some big name as he says or just picked it up off the street somewhere... and who cares, it's an internet forum, most of the stuff on here is worth what you pay for it..
none of jacks stuff is new or unique.
Everything I have seen him write was once for sale by other vendors.
Jack provides no edge.
Many hours of trading could take his set up or many others and make those set ups profitable.
The whole key to profitablity is you have to now when your approach will be profitable.
Breakouts - reversals continuations - all work at times. You have to know when.
The big joke is that jack says you have to be in the market all the time and making 20-40 trades a day.
If you tell a really big lie some will believe it.
Everything I have seen him write was once for sale by other vendors.
Jack provides no edge.
Many hours of trading could take his set up or many others and make those set ups profitable.
The whole key to profitablity is you have to now when your approach will be profitable.
Breakouts - reversals continuations - all work at times. You have to know when.
The big joke is that jack says you have to be in the market all the time and making 20-40 trades a day.
If you tell a really big lie some will believe it.
the greatest lie and misconception you will hear is that the moment you make it, u will make it forever, nothing could be further from the truth.
most on this board are paper traders or retirees playing an investment game. as for active trading, you could be making money for 10 years month after month and then slowly through attrition lose it in the next 20 even though you might have the greatest discipline, bestest lol strategy in the world. this is a mercurial game in which few will survive over the extremely long hual.
you are preaching to one who lived it.
I traded for a living about 5 - 6years. Over the next 2-3 I basically lost money after commissions. I was probably lost about 10% of my account. So I stopped.
I loved trading but I hated being a dipshit commission churner.
If you are not making money you have to find a new way to get an edge. If you can not -- quit.
The information I provided to you included and surrounded your quest.
Specifically and pointedly, you are asking about two events in the order of events: the turn at point 2 and the turn at the FTT.
In CW parlance this is the turn that begins a retrace and the turn that begins a reversal.
In terms of trading tools, to be certain of this moment of a turn, the commonly used tools include the PRV, The DOM walls, and the Stretch/ Squeeze.
For you, to know it is coming soon is one part and to know the turn is over but not too late is the other part. Part one and part two.
My most recent print that demonstrated live trading with respect to this was done for the open on the 02OCT09. There you see the timing for part one and part two of your quest.
The entry, over two seconds, took place AFTER I was informed of peaking volume on the bar. The bar began 41 seconds BEFORE the trade was taken at which time a reversal was beginning.
Let me note what a reversal is. It is the beginning of overlap of two trends and the reversal goes through a volume minimum and then becomes an increasing volume dominant trending that begins a new trend after the end of the overlap.
In this case, as posted as a print, you see the word BUY and that means I have done MADA on the bar over a 41 second period. My Analysis was simply that the peaking volume gave a beginning of a reversal and so I decided to take advantage of the situation.
As jem states and mandelbrot backs up, they saw the print on 02OCT09 and did not mentally process it in the context of the thread containing the post: namely, posting records of time and sales of trades in regards, specifically, to P&L's. The print simply shows how money is made continually and I stated 11 aspects of that in that thread along with the print. It was, in effect, a statement of the Effectiveness and Efficiency of trading as I do trading.
You can also see that is was a set of partial fills in that several rows of the sheet happened rapidly over a short time in a specific sequence available in the public record in several locations under the heading of the record of T&S.
Another part one type thing occurred at 9:54:22 on that print. It was a point 2 trade to take advantage of the profits made during a retrace from the beginng of the retrace to the end of the retrace. Look for the words: SELL SHORT. Again, partial fills occurred due to the nature of the filling of market orders that exceed a simple single fill. This also demonstrates the nature of the second chance aspect or as you state:" knowing it is not too late". In this case, later, I opened a trade at a better price than my prior exit a few minutes before at 9:48:08 and :09. Look at the T&S record and verify this as part of your effort to learn.
So I posted both examples of peak turns in my last print posted on 02OCT09 in a forum that deals with trading to make money in a timely fashion.
If I entered on peaks to take either a reversal or a retrace, letâs look at the exits of these trades. The exit on a reversal is also on a peak. The exit on a retrace is on a trough. Both begin on volume peaks. In terms of price annotation a reversal begins within a container and a retrace begins on the LTL. This is how at the moment of beginning for each of these, you ABSOLUTELY know which is which.
Your question is informative. It tells us all where you are in trading knowledge and skills. My response was unsatisfactory to you as you pointed out. That may be normal for most learners. Learners want answers and this certainly slows down learning for them.
Non learners are in a different place as amply demonstrated by lindq, jem and mandelbrot.
continued.....
the continuation:
Lets say you just want to learn an approach and make money with it. In this case you would turn to the three tools and make use of them. To use the PRV up to 9:30:41, you observe that the time rate of change of the top of PRV relative to the actual volume reached an inflection point going from acceleration to deceleration. This IS using the ES P and V and observing JUST when the turn is put in on the peaking volume bar. This sentence above is a precise answer that specifically addresses your part one and part two. You are asking how to SEE when the peak is COMING. It comes and IS there when the space between two points arranged vertically on a line exhibit the zero value by going from positive to negative for the second derivative of the time rate of change of the specific distance that is being viewed This is easily done on computers if a person's vision is poor; add a sound alarm. You can also view P and V on the OTR chart and see the intimate same pattern occurring on a chart that has a âprofileâ pane as well as a volume pane. There you see the dominant volume âswitchâ over a short period of time. It is most noticeable by checking the COLOR CHANGE of the tallest bars on the streaming volume pane below the profile pane. The trading pattern of the profile pane is composed of five sub patterns as described and defined on âThe Sweeps Chartâ. You can also cheat and use other tools that corroborate the P, V relationship demonstrated only on the ES P, V panes whether the panes be profile or time change expressed.
Cheat as follows. For the DOM you see price approach a WALL and bounce off the wall. For the Stretch/Squeeze you see a color change from red to black for the first trade and vice versa for the second trade. A requirement to see these things is to have them on your screen. Lindq, mandelbrot and jem do not have much of anything displayed as seen by reviewing their illustrations.
Now the important part: making money by completing a hold. Naturally, to make money you have to hold through the entire profit making passage of time on that fractal pattern. How to do this is a question you may ask in the future after you learn to enter trades.
Since I was narrating the calls and the steps of monitoring decision making and taking action at the time of the print on 02OCT09, I was just having those present do trades on their platforms as they annotated their displays. The print shows the group's results for about 30 minute of the beginning of the day; it is simply 100% of the range of the day so far in the day. The print comes from transferring the trading pane using a send to arrangement that allows it to be found on an Excel sheet. That is what I did to post a print during the day of 02OCT09.
I exited the first long trade at the peak of volume (point 1 to point 2 in SCT talk) I exited the next trade (short) at the last moment BEFORE a news announcement (point 2 to point 3). Both were part one exits on the appropriate volume for the moment. As you see the time I spent in the market was 80% of the time available. The 20% on the sidelines gave me a chance to speak and have the part two second chance type entry for the second trade. The fact that it was more favorable than the prior exit is part of how trading with precision works. You can see this by consulting the T&S.
Note well, that I had no trouble creaming the exit (10:00:42 and :43) of the short as the news began to appear in the public eye at 10:00 o'clock. The news lasted a while and then the former market orientation resumed. As has been pointed out, sometimes I trade as many as three times on one five minute bar. It will turn out to be an Outside Bar as is easily understood.
The key to trading is to hold during the segments as defined by the P, V pattern. Many many MADA loops occur during any holding period. You do M A D A and hold is the action and this brings closure to the routine's four part order of events.
So you see in the print the time passing during the first holds of MADA. Almost 18 minutes passed to make the points shown on the T&S record. Then a period of 6 minutes passed between part one and part two (your parts asked about) and then the next "trending" of price movement began. This was from 9:48 to 9:54. The part one was at 9:48 and the part two was at 9:54.
Holding for 18 minutes doing a trun over 6 minutes was followed by 6 minutes of holding then sidelining to watch the news's three moves and the news container BO of the RTL of the news container. As much money was made in 6 minutes as was made in 18 minutes. In effect, I wound up where I began at 9:30:41 except I had bagged 100% of the market's range up to that point.
What I have been doing recently is commenting to people who are building their minds and secondly, I occasionally quell some BS that has arisen. The tools I use to inform are mostly step by step items that form a complete picture. Here, your question is simple and is dealing with peaking volume. So I simply took up the cases. Since I had posted a print of my trading on 02OCT09, I knew that is would be fresh in the minds of some practitioners. As one person said it was a 5 minute read to understand the routine, the timing and the profits made if and when a market chart or the T and S is used.
Jem, lindq and mandelbrot have been in ET for years. They apparently do not have me on ignore as yet. They take the time to read my posts; that is clear. They express their judgments as well. Anyone who agrees with them can do so and continue to do so. There is no consequence.
What happens to an assessor who is rational? Any number of things could happen. My most recent posts form a collection of information that demonstrates trading, the basis of trading and how the pattern works on all fractals and in any market. It is a definitive collection of information that affords any assessor the means to test, program, code or use the information in any modern way of trading (manual or automatic). It also explains how I, as an experienced trader of over 50 years, have been operating since 1957. No one really needs to phish with regard to the paradigm, or the three applications of the paradigm. A record was made for anyone to use to learn to be an expert trader.
One of the more wonderful things about trading is how the market "telegraphs" its calls to the trader. The basic choice of the person assessing whether to be a trader is to decide whether to learn to make money or learn how the market operates and provides "tells" to the trader who partners with the market. Most people try to make money and fail. Successful people build their minds one way or another and trade successfully.
Readers can easily see where they fit. You either get out the T&S and chart of 02OCT09 or you don't. You either get out my print and spend 5 minutes confirming the print or you don't. My first print posted in ET was 17 trades over a whole day. Nitro called it photo shopped. His post was a funny thing to read since his judgment was incorrect.
I remember Spyder's first day of taking notes and paper trading the ES. So do a dozen others. He showed 27 points for the day. His 40 contract trade that made 46,500 dollars that was posted in ET in response to an offbase detractor was a consequence of getting to 40 contracts and using the MADA to annotate and follow the "tells" of the market.
Peaking is a term applied to volume and it relates to a pattern and the bars within the pattern. The market speaks in a binary vector fashion with respect to volume and with respect to price. As explained further to you, you can know when it is coming, arrives and when the second chance comes to an end. Learning to âreadâ the distance between the top of PRV and the top of actual volume completed is where you read the moments. People build their minds to trade; when your memory is present and available, you can do reading and MADA. When enough proper drills are done, trading becomes like driving a car.
When the mind becomes broken as shown by some of the judgments here, then that person has reached the point where reading the tells of the market is no longer possible. Getting to be mentally broken is a series of choices all of which have consequences.
Lets say you just want to learn an approach and make money with it. In this case you would turn to the three tools and make use of them. To use the PRV up to 9:30:41, you observe that the time rate of change of the top of PRV relative to the actual volume reached an inflection point going from acceleration to deceleration. This IS using the ES P and V and observing JUST when the turn is put in on the peaking volume bar. This sentence above is a precise answer that specifically addresses your part one and part two. You are asking how to SEE when the peak is COMING. It comes and IS there when the space between two points arranged vertically on a line exhibit the zero value by going from positive to negative for the second derivative of the time rate of change of the specific distance that is being viewed This is easily done on computers if a person's vision is poor; add a sound alarm. You can also view P and V on the OTR chart and see the intimate same pattern occurring on a chart that has a âprofileâ pane as well as a volume pane. There you see the dominant volume âswitchâ over a short period of time. It is most noticeable by checking the COLOR CHANGE of the tallest bars on the streaming volume pane below the profile pane. The trading pattern of the profile pane is composed of five sub patterns as described and defined on âThe Sweeps Chartâ. You can also cheat and use other tools that corroborate the P, V relationship demonstrated only on the ES P, V panes whether the panes be profile or time change expressed.
Cheat as follows. For the DOM you see price approach a WALL and bounce off the wall. For the Stretch/Squeeze you see a color change from red to black for the first trade and vice versa for the second trade. A requirement to see these things is to have them on your screen. Lindq, mandelbrot and jem do not have much of anything displayed as seen by reviewing their illustrations.
Now the important part: making money by completing a hold. Naturally, to make money you have to hold through the entire profit making passage of time on that fractal pattern. How to do this is a question you may ask in the future after you learn to enter trades.
Since I was narrating the calls and the steps of monitoring decision making and taking action at the time of the print on 02OCT09, I was just having those present do trades on their platforms as they annotated their displays. The print shows the group's results for about 30 minute of the beginning of the day; it is simply 100% of the range of the day so far in the day. The print comes from transferring the trading pane using a send to arrangement that allows it to be found on an Excel sheet. That is what I did to post a print during the day of 02OCT09.
I exited the first long trade at the peak of volume (point 1 to point 2 in SCT talk) I exited the next trade (short) at the last moment BEFORE a news announcement (point 2 to point 3). Both were part one exits on the appropriate volume for the moment. As you see the time I spent in the market was 80% of the time available. The 20% on the sidelines gave me a chance to speak and have the part two second chance type entry for the second trade. The fact that it was more favorable than the prior exit is part of how trading with precision works. You can see this by consulting the T&S.
Note well, that I had no trouble creaming the exit (10:00:42 and :43) of the short as the news began to appear in the public eye at 10:00 o'clock. The news lasted a while and then the former market orientation resumed. As has been pointed out, sometimes I trade as many as three times on one five minute bar. It will turn out to be an Outside Bar as is easily understood.
The key to trading is to hold during the segments as defined by the P, V pattern. Many many MADA loops occur during any holding period. You do M A D A and hold is the action and this brings closure to the routine's four part order of events.
So you see in the print the time passing during the first holds of MADA. Almost 18 minutes passed to make the points shown on the T&S record. Then a period of 6 minutes passed between part one and part two (your parts asked about) and then the next "trending" of price movement began. This was from 9:48 to 9:54. The part one was at 9:48 and the part two was at 9:54.
Holding for 18 minutes doing a trun over 6 minutes was followed by 6 minutes of holding then sidelining to watch the news's three moves and the news container BO of the RTL of the news container. As much money was made in 6 minutes as was made in 18 minutes. In effect, I wound up where I began at 9:30:41 except I had bagged 100% of the market's range up to that point.
What I have been doing recently is commenting to people who are building their minds and secondly, I occasionally quell some BS that has arisen. The tools I use to inform are mostly step by step items that form a complete picture. Here, your question is simple and is dealing with peaking volume. So I simply took up the cases. Since I had posted a print of my trading on 02OCT09, I knew that is would be fresh in the minds of some practitioners. As one person said it was a 5 minute read to understand the routine, the timing and the profits made if and when a market chart or the T and S is used.
Jem, lindq and mandelbrot have been in ET for years. They apparently do not have me on ignore as yet. They take the time to read my posts; that is clear. They express their judgments as well. Anyone who agrees with them can do so and continue to do so. There is no consequence.
What happens to an assessor who is rational? Any number of things could happen. My most recent posts form a collection of information that demonstrates trading, the basis of trading and how the pattern works on all fractals and in any market. It is a definitive collection of information that affords any assessor the means to test, program, code or use the information in any modern way of trading (manual or automatic). It also explains how I, as an experienced trader of over 50 years, have been operating since 1957. No one really needs to phish with regard to the paradigm, or the three applications of the paradigm. A record was made for anyone to use to learn to be an expert trader.
One of the more wonderful things about trading is how the market "telegraphs" its calls to the trader. The basic choice of the person assessing whether to be a trader is to decide whether to learn to make money or learn how the market operates and provides "tells" to the trader who partners with the market. Most people try to make money and fail. Successful people build their minds one way or another and trade successfully.
Readers can easily see where they fit. You either get out the T&S and chart of 02OCT09 or you don't. You either get out my print and spend 5 minutes confirming the print or you don't. My first print posted in ET was 17 trades over a whole day. Nitro called it photo shopped. His post was a funny thing to read since his judgment was incorrect.
I remember Spyder's first day of taking notes and paper trading the ES. So do a dozen others. He showed 27 points for the day. His 40 contract trade that made 46,500 dollars that was posted in ET in response to an offbase detractor was a consequence of getting to 40 contracts and using the MADA to annotate and follow the "tells" of the market.
Peaking is a term applied to volume and it relates to a pattern and the bars within the pattern. The market speaks in a binary vector fashion with respect to volume and with respect to price. As explained further to you, you can know when it is coming, arrives and when the second chance comes to an end. Learning to âreadâ the distance between the top of PRV and the top of actual volume completed is where you read the moments. People build their minds to trade; when your memory is present and available, you can do reading and MADA. When enough proper drills are done, trading becomes like driving a car.
When the mind becomes broken as shown by some of the judgments here, then that person has reached the point where reading the tells of the market is no longer possible. Getting to be mentally broken is a series of choices all of which have consequences.
I saw no prints and no proof of trading fills.
I am sure I would like to see it.
I could sit here and say I made bunch of money on a trade I put on last week.
(which is true depending on how you define bunch)
but that does not nothing to validate my approach to trading.
You have been pretending to be a trading guru for a decade on the internet.
You have made astounding claims.
It has been pointed out to you when claims you made were impossible.
you adjust your claims and your pretend tools - and make new ones.
all you really need to do is provide proof of trading success.
I checked the posts for october 2 - all I saw was some spread sheet with numbers in them.
Are you saying those were posted before the trades were made?
Or we they posted after the fact.
What a joke - jack ... are you self delusional?
by the way I read some of your posts because - I have multiple steams of income - one of them involves websites and sales.
In fact I am listening to my assistant setting up appointments right now.
Jack you are interesting because I enjoy the evolution of a your sales pitch.
I also hope that one day you actually learn how to make money in the market with real money.
Then you might actually right something that resonates with professional traders.
You are very interesting in a deconstruction of a fraud kind of way.
I am sure I would like to see it.
I could sit here and say I made bunch of money on a trade I put on last week.
(which is true depending on how you define bunch)
but that does not nothing to validate my approach to trading.
You have been pretending to be a trading guru for a decade on the internet.
You have made astounding claims.
It has been pointed out to you when claims you made were impossible.
you adjust your claims and your pretend tools - and make new ones.
all you really need to do is provide proof of trading success.
I checked the posts for october 2 - all I saw was some spread sheet with numbers in them.
Are you saying those were posted before the trades were made?
Or we they posted after the fact.
What a joke - jack ... are you self delusional?
by the way I read some of your posts because - I have multiple steams of income - one of them involves websites and sales.
In fact I am listening to my assistant setting up appointments right now.
Jack you are interesting because I enjoy the evolution of a your sales pitch.
I also hope that one day you actually learn how to make money in the market with real money.
Then you might actually right something that resonates with professional traders.
You are very interesting in a deconstruction of a fraud kind of way.