How much % a day is possible.

[bighog]

makloda

Not going to get into a semantics contest. BUT:

You seem to be insinuating that you are correct if all of us contend we make 100% a month.

You totally missed my point: MY point was and is that consistent winners do not
as example have wide swings every other day, week, month, etc.

You are contending ALL traders go all out on trades and win a ton this week and lose it next week. WRONG!!!!

Reread my other post and give it some thought, sorry if tour ego was tripped.

i am trying to help, not to be negative.

PS, princessa....you sound very sound in your description of the possible learning curve in getting a handle on futures. Good Luck nice post of a level headed thinking process.

No more posts, gonna get ready for slicing some bacon for today.

 

[taowave]

Holy Shit....I thought you were talking 100% per year....You are talking per MONTH???

Once again,I himly ask,what type of leverage are we talking about and and what size capital base????

Quote from bighog:

makloda

Not going to get into a semantics contest. BUT:

You seem to be insinuating that you are correct if all of us contend we make 100% a month.

You totally missed my point: MY point was and is that consistent winners do not
as example have wide swings every other day, week, month, etc.

You are contending ALL traders go all out on trades and win a ton this week and lose it next week. WRONG!!!!

Reread my other post and give it some thought, sorry if tour ego was tripped.

i am trying to help, not to be negative.

PS, princessa....you sound very sound in your description of the possible learning curve in getting a handle on futures. Good Luck nice post of a level headed thinking process.

No more posts, gonna get ready for slicing some bacon for today.

 

[me1969]

Isn't the saying hogs get slaughtered..


Sorry for that, bighog

 

[Bitstream]

Quote from taowave:

Holy Shit....I thought you were talking 100% per year....You are talking per MONTH???

Once again,I himly ask,what type of leverage are we talking about and and what size capital base????

this guy is so full of shite the smell is unbearable; he's one of the pretendies, still playing on a sim.

 

[jack hershey]

taowave,

Would you like to have a series of brief exchanges on how the amount of profits are determined?

Starting from the beginning, of course.

 

[taowave]

Quote from jack hershey:

taowave,

Would you like to have a series of brief exchanges on how the amount of profits are determined?

Starting from the beginning, of course.

Yes INDEED....I would really appreciate it....

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from taowave:

Yes INDEED....I would really appreciate it....

I only trade in two ways.

Stocks and futures indexes.

I have a given amount of cash in each.

This is the basis of my calculations for making money.

These are denominators for my calculations of how well my capital is doing for me.

I can only trade so much capital in indexes so I transfer excess to stock streams and use two ways of making money in the stocks.


Here are some examples:


For 10 contracts of the ES, I make 10 times 17 points times 50 dollars. This is about 8,320 dollars. At the beginning of the day I have 32,560 in the account for ES. So I look at it this way. I divide the 8,320 by 32,560 and then multiply by 100 to get a percent. On my 10 B hp I am reading 25.55%. This is a real number for me in the sense that I had 32,560 in my account and now it is 25.55% bigger after making the 17 points.

For trading the ES there are other considerations and they are all about leverage and things like that.

I also have considerations that I use to judge my perfomance. They are related to comparisons of standards I hae as they relate to how much money was there to make and how much time I took to get that money out ofthe market during the day.


I do stocks in two manners. One is for streams of swing or position trading the other is for money that is not usable for swing trading but is used for longer periods.

I only count money that has been made by completing an entry and then an exit. I have a starting balance (X) which is what I have in total for swing trading. The accounts show what the profits are at the end of the day (Y). So I only count what is completed and not what is still "working". Y*100/X is how I get an answer. here the number is lower than the index trading by a large factor. Five to 15 is common. Here my target runs around 2 to 3 % day.

The other capital I check only weekly. And I do the X and Y for that. It is about 2% a week.

I compare the calculations to a standard as a measure of my effectiveness and efficiency. It is a little more complicated but these aspects have to do with how the market is offering me capital.

There are other calculations that people do. I just do not do those. It is only important to me to be taking money out of the market. I do not stay in anything if I am not making money simply because I have other alternatives at all times for making money.

I know that you want to do the calculations differently for other reasons. I just never got into that very much.

I just move money from one thing to another periodically and the basis for this movement is that the markets have limits for making money and I can only watch so much at any time.

The example of the indexes is not a good day for two reasons: I wasn't "all in" and I did not meet my standard.

 

[ElectricSavant]

Is the basis for your decision to move, predicated on the now? or what you can move it into?

If the now is not performing, is that the trigger?...or is "what I can move it into is better" the trigger?

Do you scan and look for the fresh money? and then do you evaluate your opens...or vice versa?

How does your analysis differ in a bear market? does market direction form a bias and do you perform better in different market environments?

Mr. Hershey, I again want to thank you for sharing.

Michael B.

I just move money from one thing to another periodically and the basis for this movement is that the markets have limits for making money and I can only watch so much at any time.

 

[taowave]

Quote from jack hershey:


I only count money that has been made by completing an entry and then an exit. I have a starting balance (X) which is what I have in total for swing trading. The accounts show what the profits are at the end of the day (Y). So I only count what is completed and not what is still "working". Y*100/X is how I get an answer. here the number is lower than the index trading by a large factor. Five to 15 is common. Here my target runs around 2 to 3 % day..
[/B]

maybe i am missing something..

x = starting balance
y=profits

Did you mean to write Y*100/x ??

If you made 5000(y),and you started with 100,000(x),wouldny you just divide X into Y..Dont understand why you multiply by 100...

I do get your point....

Am i correct that you are NOT leveraging your capital in stock trading??? It appears some day traders trade on 20-1 margin.

 

[lescor]

Quote from makloda:

"ROOKIES trade like that, winners do not. " Well then you have to tell me how the "winner trader" made the 100% in period 1 and period 2 in the first place? Likely by taking on big (but calculated) risks. There is no risk free 100% in the markets.

Striving for abnormal returns forces any trader to be financially and mentally capable of enduring deeper and longer drawdowns. My point is that most traders lack both, the financial and mental means.

That's all I am saying. What point am I missing?

You're not getting it. My comment earlier in this thread was using the example of a prop stock trader with a moderate amount of capital who plays a tight game and consistently makes >100% per year on his capital. By consistent I mean making money almost every month for years on end. A bad month would be up only a few thousand dollars, maybe down a bit. A good month might be 10, 20 or 40,000.

The good, consistent traders do not take big swings. They chip away and keep the losses small. What seems like "abnormal returns" to you is possible by tight risk control and smart use of leverage. Yes, these guys might trade 10 or 20x their capital at times, but they they still bear all the risk and keep it in line with what their equity can handle.

You seem to be using an investing mindset to evaluate the kind of trading I'm talking about. Not comparable, imho.