How many years are necessary to consider yourself a successful trader?

satyaveer said:
frenz i am new to the Day trading world ,
I have found most of day trading community talk about trading Stocks in Play .
For me its been very difficult to find new stocks every day , i loose focus and start doing overtrading .
Is it okay to trade same stock every day for a long period of time like 2-3 months or a year ??

I will be greatful if anyone can help me with that .

Thanks
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Yes. To learn daytrading price action, I traded just one particular stock for an entire year. There is a benefit from reducing variables to a comprehensible level appropriate to one’s level of discernment.

Another approach is to build a list of high-quality stocks that becomes your universe of reliable stocks to trade. IBD is a quality resource in this regard and can illustrate some of the basics.
 
learner2007 said:
How many years are necessary to consider yourself a successful trader?

More than how many years, it's

When you can identify the reasons for your losses.
When you don't look at the prices on the menu.
When you have more followers on ET than the number you follow.
When you feel you don't have to trade today.
When you no longer feel the market is rigged.
When you are happy to find manipulated stocks.
When you stop worrying about what they are doing.
When you have no need to hedge.
When you no longer dream of making it.
When love is the only emotion you can't control.
When you stop giving tips to your friends.
When, with the exception of a stop loss, you don't need risk management.
When you stop trying to copy what the banks and hedge funds are doing
When you stop trying to be like those you read about in Market Wizards.
When you don't give a rat's ass about the small loss you just took.
When you no longer fear or blame HFT, AI, algos and the like.
When the obvious is obvious.
When you no longer creep up to your computer.
When you've read 100 market books and feel you could write the best one ever.
When there are only a few on ET that you pay attention to.
When you don't get the urge to trade Bitcoin.
When you realize that there is still a lot left to learn.
When you stop looking for the best trading platform.
When you are really proud of your plan.
And last but not least,
When you have the time to write stuff like this on ET!!

(to be continued)
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learner2007 said:
I got 13 Likes for the above! A new record for me.
Not all of the points above and below are based on personal experience. A number of them are points I've seen repeatedly mentioned on ET or observed in other traders during the 23 years I spent in brokers' boardrooms.

When you have a situation that deviates slightly/somewhat from your plan, but you
are able to do an on the spot analysis as to whether the trade can safely be taken or not and your analysis most often proves to be correct.
When you ask the market and listen to what it's tellin' ya, but you don't hear what it ain't sayin'.
When you have a situation that, looks like it will..., should..., shouldn't..., think it most likely will..., think it might..., feel it will..., and you don't take the trade.
When the trade you just exited continues advancing and you don't consider that a loss, realizing that you can't lose what you never had.
When the trade you just exited continues advancing and you don't regret exiting, just as you didn't regret having not entered earlier.
When you know that the only type of bottom picking you should do is that which gives you a stinky finger.
When you no longer feel that the chart is bigger than you.
When you no longer look for or feel that you need to find a trading setup to fit every price movement under the sun.
When the setups in your plan have been reduced from 10,000 to 10.
When you no longer try to apply TA to all or any given charts, and instead find charts with TA factors that jump out at you like something coming out of a 3D movie.
When you realize that the farther the TA pattern etc. is out on the limb from the textbook version, the less likely it is that it will workout.
When you realize that there is a good way to trade, a bad way to trade, and there's YOUR way to trade.
When you realize that the big banks and brokers, with all the information in the world at their fingertips, an analyst for everything, a room full of guys with a PhD and a BB, AI, algos galore etc., are not the Gods of trading.
(They should fire the analysts, cancel the BB, delete the algos, and just hire all the great traders here on ET!!)

(to be continued)
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When you stop looking for the reason why what you're holding is going up/down.
When you no longer think or talk about the intrigue of the market.
When you no longer feel the need to look for events to make money.
When your trading is as methodical as price movement is.
When you don't tattoo your plan on your arm because you know there is always room for improvement.
When you hear someone say about his holdings, "I'm not worried, the market was due for a correction".
When you hear someone say about his holdings, "I'm not worried , it'll come back, it always has".
When you discover the DNA of price movement.
When you have enough confidence to help others.
When you see gurus, analysts at brokers and the like as little more than glorified salesmen.
When you hear someone say that his edge stopped working, and know that it was not based on the basics of price movement and therefore could not have been expected to last.
When you realize that the last thing you mastered will not be the last thing you'll master.
When you realize that there will always be trends in the markets as long as there are people who can't read them.
When you can look at what would have been a worthwhile trade on an old chart and determine the TA reason for the move.
When you can look at what would have been a failed trade on an old chart and determine the TA reason for the failure.
When you can apply the above two in real time.
When you realize that learning to trade is like learning a foreign language. You'll do no better than speak broken Spanish without a sound working knowledge of basic grammar.

(to be continued)
 
learner2007 said:
When you stop looking for the reason why what you're holding is going up/down.
When you no longer think or talk about the intrigue of the market.
When you no longer feel the need to look for events to make money.
When your trading is as methodical as price movement is.
When you don't tattoo your plan on your arm because you know there is always room for improvement.
When you hear someone say about his holdings, "I'm not worried, the market was due for a correction".
When you hear someone say about his holdings, "I'm not worried , it'll come back, it always has".
When you discover the DNA of price movement.
When you have enough confidence to help others.
When you see gurus, analysts at brokers and the like as little more than glorified salesmen.
When you hear someone say that his edge stopped working, and know that it was not based on the basics of price movement and therefore could not have been expected to last.
When you realize that the last thing you mastered will not be the last thing you'll master.
When you realize that there will always be trends in the markets as long as there are people who can't read them.
When you can look at what would have been a worthwhile trade on an old chart and determine the TA reason for the move.
When you can look at what would have been a failed trade on an old chart and determine the TA reason for the failure.
When you can apply the above two in real time.
When you realize that learning to trade is like learning a foreign language. You'll do no better than speak broken Spanish without a sound working knowledge of basic grammar.

(to be continued)
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I don't think all this is necessary to become a successful trader.
I agree with the list and recognize most if not all of these statements. But to me it rather confiRms that improving your trading is a never ending story. There will always be room for improvement.

When I started to trade and made several times improvements, I always thought that from that moment on I would not find any improvements anymore. I was sure I tried and analyzed everything possible.
Now, after a few decades of trading and a lot of life experiences, I still improve and learn and I never say again: There is nothing that I still can improve.

If I will not improve anymore it will be because I gave up. With the years, the energy and the motivation is less available then it was before.
Most improvements came when it was not for the money anymore but for the challenge to beat the markets, to control my positions in such a way that the market could not harm me anymore, to beat all other traders, to try to do the impossible. It almost became an obsession, till my partner learned me to enjoy life and exchange trading time for quality time.
 
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schweiz said:
I don't think all this is necessary to become a successful trader.
I agree with the list and recognize most if not all of these statements. But to me it rather confiRms that improving your trading is a never ending story. There will always be room for improvement.

When I started to trade and made several times improvements, I always thought that from that moment on I would not find any improvements anymore. I was sure I tried and analyzed everything possible.
Now, after a few decades of trading and a lot of life experiences, I still improve and learn and I never say again: There is nothing that I still can improve.

If I will not improve anymore it will be because I gave up. With the years, the energy and the motivation is less available then it was before.
Most improvements came when it was not for the money anymore but for the challenge to beat the markets, to control my positions in such a way that the market could not harm me anymore, to beat all other traders, to try to do the impossible. It almost became an obsession, till my partner learned me to enjoy life and exchange trading time for quality time.
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Yep, when you know what you know and also know what you don't know!
 
Gotcha said:
I find these discussions about what method works or which is better to be quite interesting. Every time this comes up, the most critical part of the argument, ie. the results, is left out. I mean imagine drug companies all trying to push their own medication as the best, without actually putting up stats to show how many people have benefits and how many people have serious side effects. No amount of marketing could hide the crucial numbers, and then the consumer could decide.

Likewise, every time you have traders arguing about complex math models, and how beneficial they are, or, as in another current thread, if volume is important, or any other conceivable way to trade the market, what is missing from these discussions is the results attained.

I have lots of respect for @sle, and @Scataphagos , and everyone knows that @Xela is a highly regarded poster. But lets face it, their results would paint a much better picture than any words they choose to use.

If @sle works for a firm and is trading hundreds of millions of dollars, a 20% gain trading equites would be incredible, and yet, this 20% gain for a retail trader with a 100k account would be pathetic. (clearly its different trading a 100k account vs. 100mil account).

You might have guys trading currencies and think they are hot shit with their method and making 50 pips per day using all sorts of indicators, but then you have guys like @Scataphagos who likes to use the KISS method and is raking in many more points while sitting back more and using more generous stops and targets perhaps, with the end result being that more points are actually banked.

The point of all this is that there is actually a way to evaluate what works and what doesn't. Case in point, those guys saying they are using volume for their analysis, how many ES points are they making in an average week, and what are they risking, and how does this compare to a trader who isn't using volume?

I've picked on @bone before, and I will use him again for this example. On his website, he states that his trading method allows clients to put on trades with a 1:1 ratio, and often times the profit can be greater than 1:1. Clearly this isn't with a 90% win rate, and so in my opinion, whatever complex method he uses is highly overly complex if all you're doing is putting on a 1:1 trade and hoping to win more than half.

Another example is @Maverick74 . I've had discussions with him in other threads about how his in depth studies of fundamental analysis help him put on CL trades. He proposes that one needs to go to great lengths of studying inventory reports and rig counts and have access to so much complex info, which most don't, but how does his trading, his profits, his win rate, compare to guys like @Overnight who is just a price action trader?

I've also tried several times now to get @Sprout to produce some stats on his in-depth bar analysis. He seems to love to tell new members about his method, but nowhere is there a mention of how his in depth analysis translates into win rate, and hence, into profits.

The point I'm making is that I think many traders here delude themselves into thinking that what they are doing is actually making a difference. They may be profitable, but its more than likely because of a good sense of market direction and excellent trade and money management metrics. Perhaps there is a psychological benefit to doing more analysis and having more confidence when you put on a trade, but none of this actually helps the trade.

The placebo effect produces results in medicine, and perhaps in trading as well, but we all know that getting the sugar pill without any actual active ingredient isn't making the patient feel better because of the active ingredient, since it doesn't contain it. So all of these discussions about what is necessary for trading is only necessary if its producing more profits than a simple method. Every time I've seen actual results from someone who is doing something overly complex, and I can list several examples, these results were barely worth any mention. Sharing results can put lots of these discussions to rest.
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I appreciate your thoughts on the matter and the dilemma that you face. The focus on results is useful for critical thinking to a certain extent. From where you are looking it has high value. In effect it’s evaluating the end to judge the means. It seems like a no-brainer.

So why doesn’t the world align with this logic? Wouldn’t it be simpler if everyone would just post their stats?

There are three reasons why I don’t do it.
1) It takes one’s eye off the ball.
2) It doesn’t address the fundamental factor that differentiates success or failure of any chosen method. It’s not a ‘thing’ ‘out there.’ This notion of beliefs being a template by which one has the ability to perceive is best trained to experience. There are certain statements of fact that to those not experienced would claim are just not possible. This has the effect of taking one’s eyes off the ball.

3) Engaging in any type of pissing contest is counter-productive and further takes one’s eye off the ball.

To gain a deeper appreciation of market structure and it’s system of operation is a skill learned by performing MADA. Whatever one’s system, the components are similar in the fundamentals of Monitor, Analyze, Decide and then Act.

Trading timescales and the grandularity of distinctions might vary among methods. The market is like a group of blind folk touching different parts of an elephant and not perceiving the whole based on the sum of it’s parts.
There is a ‘beingness’ that the observer and observed share.

It’s in this ‘beingness’ I assert the answers to your more profound questions are found.



Edit: In other words, it’s the difference between counting each bar or making each bar count.
 
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