How many times did you lose your capital before becoming profitable?
- Thread starter ronin266
- Start date
@ Hate the risk
I like where your head is at, very informative how you broke it down, and i agree 100% with you. And i would say, start small and grow your account that way, you build confidence as you go and at the same time, the attachment to the money is not as strong, i mean, you can look at it as, its money you got from the market anyways, as opposed to your money from your bank account.
I like where your head is at, very informative how you broke it down, and i agree 100% with you. And i would say, start small and grow your account that way, you build confidence as you go and at the same time, the attachment to the money is not as strong, i mean, you can look at it as, its money you got from the market anyways, as opposed to your money from your bank account.
Back in early November I started with $2300. I transfered $300 into a trading account, and promptly grew it to just over 500 by mid november. By end of November, I was just over a $1000. Then I got a little too bold with my gold trading. As the gold price collapsed in December, I kept cost averaging down to an average price of 1595. By the time gold hit its low, I had reduced my account down to only $250 approximately. I finally cut my losses and got out. And sure enough, soon after doing that gold started to go back up again. Again, I have built that account back up to just under $1000. Gold has been stuck in a range between 1705 and 1765. Each time it hits the bottom of that range, I have added more and more to my position. I am now long 12 units with an average price of 1727 and a stop set at 1650. As you can see, I stand to lose more than $900 if it goes against me, but can win more than $900 if goes in my favour.
For those of you who are unfamiliar with trading XAU/USD, it requires only a $2 deposit to trade one ounce of gold.
Anyhow, we'll see if I manage to break the $2000 mark this time.
@bhardy
Dear bhardy,
Psychology blockade money level:
In such a situation the persons subconscious mind controlls your actions.
He/she unwittingly believes to be not worth it to make morey money, than a usual under class
"normal" person makes a month with hard work 38-45h a week, while he/she just sits infront on the computer and pulling triggers, trying to prove him/her-self and the rest of the world that his/her trading is not a gambling, but smart and hard work.
This is programm in the persons mind burnt in for many years from the society, as well from the mass medias, TV, radio and newspaper - online and offline. The message send often subliminal tells you, you are a normal under class citizien and you are not allowed to change that. This is i believe created by the illuminaties, to controll the masses.
A person who is educated on a expensive university, like harvard, and they have taught him/her, that he/she is better than the under class, because of his/her education --- will not have such an blockage......................
To solve this fucking problem, the victim has to trick his/her own mind.
Stop watching TV, stop listening to radio, stop reading news - and just concentrating on your mind problem - to change his/her mind into a upperclass thinking and winning and being worth it - persons mind.
Once again, the problem is that the victim, believes unconscious that he/she is not worth it to make much money, or more than the most of people. Because we are all brainwashed since our youth.
To free the victims mind of such an bad state, it have to stop doing things, like what the mass of the peoples do.
Mind trick:
Lets say, the blockade level is $2,000. But to come to 2k is no problem.
1. Make it to 2,000. Withdraw 1,000,- to your safed money.
2. Make it from 1,000 to 2,000 again, withdraw 500,- to your safed money.
3. Make it from 1,500 to 2,000, withraw 500,- to your safed money.
Do this so often until you have safed at least 2 times the amount of your blockade level.
So for this example here, have at least 4,000 safe on your bank account, and never touch it for
trading.
4. Now when you reach again 2,000 on your trading account, your mind tells you, "hey, i have 4,000 safed and only 2,000 on my trading account, thats not right, i want at least have so much money on my trading account, as i have on my bank account". The blockade is gone.
5. Always keep it in this manner and the victim/you will never again have this problem
Trust me, i know what i am talking about..............
You must trick your own mind. You must change your thinking into a upperclass guy.
Imagine you come from a rich family of traders, you went to harvard, have a master bachelor degree in finance of whatever and your better than a normal worker, in every way, and your destiny is to make a lot of money.
-----------------------------------------------
Realize the fact, that the most of underclass worker person, who have won over one million in the lottery, have spent it all after several years. Because they simply cant handle that amount of money.
They have never learnt it, so they just want a high class lifestyle and spend it all.
Now a person, who thinks in a upperclass mindset, knows that the No 1 rule of handling money, is to maintain the whealth and security of the funds, while finding some safe investment moeny growing way, like time money offshore banking for interests or some savings plan from a bank.
-----------------------------------------------
Mindset of traders:
1) A new trader, who have found a way to make money in the markets - on his/her own or through a mentor. He/she now makes money, and only thinks about "how great it is all and that he/she will soon be super rich and just have so much money, he/she would have never thought about" and just thinks about how to spend all this money.
Now, the other side.
2) A trader for several years, struggling in the fight to becoming successfull. Almost gave it all up several times. Felt desperated, worthless, hopeless..............felt the pain of losing again and again and again...............felt the pain of not following the plan again for the 1,000 time.
Hated it........Felt the pain of losing over and over again, while he/she became better and better....
But he/she never gave up and finally after a long time, he/she mastered all the issues, technically and psycholgical ones, which controlled her failure........
Now, this person, finally makes constantly makes money, and she/he knows exactly "why" and "how" this game/business works...........and he/she thinks only "the money is my REWARD, for all the PAIN i went through". Its only a reward for very very very hard work, and a very very very hard time of this persons life.
!!! There is no excitement in making money anymore, doesnt matter how much he/she makes !!!
!!! The money finally has only become the reward for all the pain he/she went through on his/her way to becoming a constant successfull trader - Knowing he/she DESERVES it, because he/she worked so hard for it.
Once you have worked very hard for it, you want to have your reward for all this effort....
---> The 1) person, will likely high probably lose all of his/her money, because of this "making money is exciting" - mindset.
---> While 2) person, will stay successfull in the business, forever and will make a fortune, because its just the reward for the pain, to heal the wounds of a personally misery
--------------------------------------------
1. Trick your mind, with my method of having always more money safed, than having to trade.
2. Realize that you are worth it to make and have much money.
3. See yourself as "different" to all this poor brainless underclass workers.
4. Be a selfmade man and do it your way.
5. Give a fuck about everything else.
Allow yourself to make more money. Release yourself from any kind of blockade.
---Just my thoughts---
(Sorry, i know my spelling is horrible, i hope you have understood what i tried to say.
I think i hit your situation exactly??? I was there too, and it sucks hardcore, i know, but you
must be strong now, to come over this shit and release yourself from the burden of your shoulders.)
Best,
HTR
Dear bhardy,
Psychology blockade money level:
In such a situation the persons subconscious mind controlls your actions.
He/she unwittingly believes to be not worth it to make morey money, than a usual under class
"normal" person makes a month with hard work 38-45h a week, while he/she just sits infront on the computer and pulling triggers, trying to prove him/her-self and the rest of the world that his/her trading is not a gambling, but smart and hard work.
This is programm in the persons mind burnt in for many years from the society, as well from the mass medias, TV, radio and newspaper - online and offline. The message send often subliminal tells you, you are a normal under class citizien and you are not allowed to change that. This is i believe created by the illuminaties, to controll the masses.
A person who is educated on a expensive university, like harvard, and they have taught him/her, that he/she is better than the under class, because of his/her education --- will not have such an blockage......................
To solve this fucking problem, the victim has to trick his/her own mind.
Stop watching TV, stop listening to radio, stop reading news - and just concentrating on your mind problem - to change his/her mind into a upperclass thinking and winning and being worth it - persons mind.
Once again, the problem is that the victim, believes unconscious that he/she is not worth it to make much money, or more than the most of people. Because we are all brainwashed since our youth.
To free the victims mind of such an bad state, it have to stop doing things, like what the mass of the peoples do.
Mind trick:
Lets say, the blockade level is $2,000. But to come to 2k is no problem.
1. Make it to 2,000. Withdraw 1,000,- to your safed money.
2. Make it from 1,000 to 2,000 again, withdraw 500,- to your safed money.
3. Make it from 1,500 to 2,000, withraw 500,- to your safed money.
Do this so often until you have safed at least 2 times the amount of your blockade level.
So for this example here, have at least 4,000 safe on your bank account, and never touch it for
trading.
4. Now when you reach again 2,000 on your trading account, your mind tells you, "hey, i have 4,000 safed and only 2,000 on my trading account, thats not right, i want at least have so much money on my trading account, as i have on my bank account". The blockade is gone.
5. Always keep it in this manner and the victim/you will never again have this problem
Trust me, i know what i am talking about..............
You must trick your own mind. You must change your thinking into a upperclass guy.
Imagine you come from a rich family of traders, you went to harvard, have a master bachelor degree in finance of whatever and your better than a normal worker, in every way, and your destiny is to make a lot of money.
-----------------------------------------------
Realize the fact, that the most of underclass worker person, who have won over one million in the lottery, have spent it all after several years. Because they simply cant handle that amount of money.
They have never learnt it, so they just want a high class lifestyle and spend it all.
Now a person, who thinks in a upperclass mindset, knows that the No 1 rule of handling money, is to maintain the whealth and security of the funds, while finding some safe investment moeny growing way, like time money offshore banking for interests or some savings plan from a bank.
-----------------------------------------------
Mindset of traders:
1) A new trader, who have found a way to make money in the markets - on his/her own or through a mentor. He/she now makes money, and only thinks about "how great it is all and that he/she will soon be super rich and just have so much money, he/she would have never thought about" and just thinks about how to spend all this money.
Now, the other side.
2) A trader for several years, struggling in the fight to becoming successfull. Almost gave it all up several times. Felt desperated, worthless, hopeless..............felt the pain of losing again and again and again...............felt the pain of not following the plan again for the 1,000 time.
Hated it........Felt the pain of losing over and over again, while he/she became better and better....
But he/she never gave up and finally after a long time, he/she mastered all the issues, technically and psycholgical ones, which controlled her failure........
Now, this person, finally makes constantly makes money, and she/he knows exactly "why" and "how" this game/business works...........and he/she thinks only "the money is my REWARD, for all the PAIN i went through". Its only a reward for very very very hard work, and a very very very hard time of this persons life.
!!! There is no excitement in making money anymore, doesnt matter how much he/she makes !!!
!!! The money finally has only become the reward for all the pain he/she went through on his/her way to becoming a constant successfull trader - Knowing he/she DESERVES it, because he/she worked so hard for it.
Once you have worked very hard for it, you want to have your reward for all this effort....
---> The 1) person, will likely high probably lose all of his/her money, because of this "making money is exciting" - mindset.
---> While 2) person, will stay successfull in the business, forever and will make a fortune, because its just the reward for the pain, to heal the wounds of a personally misery
--------------------------------------------
1. Trick your mind, with my method of having always more money safed, than having to trade.
2. Realize that you are worth it to make and have much money.
3. See yourself as "different" to all this poor brainless underclass workers.
4. Be a selfmade man and do it your way.
5. Give a fuck about everything else.
Allow yourself to make more money. Release yourself from any kind of blockade.
---Just my thoughts---
(Sorry, i know my spelling is horrible, i hope you have understood what i tried to say.
I think i hit your situation exactly??? I was there too, and it sucks hardcore, i know, but you
must be strong now, to come over this shit and release yourself from the burden of your shoulders.)
Best,
HTR
Quote from bhardy307:
The mocking oldtim(er) is at it again.
By the way, in this day an age, when you can risk $50 to $100 at a time to learn how to trade, you are an absolute and complete idiot if you choose instead to make a large, several thousand, deposit and trade with this, because in the vast majority of cases you will lose it all no matter how large or small your deposit. Obviously, I am talking about people like me who are learning how to trade. You bigshots can risk however much you want.
If you can't trade you shouldn't be trading with ANY amount of real money, even $100. And how is learning how to trade with an EXTREMELY leveraged account going to help you in the future when your account value is $100,000? Then a black swan happens and your back to square 1, with $100
3 times, probably $30K+ in all. The more preconceptions of what works and how things are done (and what is possible), and the more psychological hangups you have, the more expensive the tuition is going to be.
I really believe the 10,000 hour rule is a good rule of thumb for this.
It's probably better if you are poor for the first 10,000 hours, and then suddenly quite well capitalized afterward to avoid that heart-sinking moment where you really have it figured out and realize how terribly under-capitalized you really are.
I really believe the 10,000 hour rule is a good rule of thumb for this.
It's probably better if you are poor for the first 10,000 hours, and then suddenly quite well capitalized afterward to avoid that heart-sinking moment where you really have it figured out and realize how terribly under-capitalized you really are.
"real money"? Another SIM trader? I'm sorry, but I simply don't agree. The psycholgy of trading a SIM account and real money is completely different. How much have I lost since this proces began about a year ago? About $1000.
A leveraged account gives a few hundred dollar account the power of several thousand. Frankly, I don't even think about it in that way. Instead, I think: how much money am I gaining/losing for each unit change in price of the instrument I am trading. This logic is as meaningful with a several hundred dollar account as it is with a several hundred thousand dollar account.
Also what so many people don't seem to get is that a highly leveraged account is only as leveraged as you choose to make it. There is no real difference between levaraging yourself 100 to 1, or buying 100 shares instead of 1 with no leverage. The primary difference is how much equity remains available in you account to trade other things. Leverage used properly, is actually a safety net, since you can diversify into a other instruments at the same time because each position uses up less of your available equity.
You can think of it in this way. If I trade gold at 1775 in a $100 account, I am actually trading anywhere from a $1775 account all the way to a $88750 account depending on how much risk I choose to take, given that it costs $2 to trade an ounce of gold. At worst, I loose the $100. I am actually exposing myself to only moderate amounts of risks and losses this way.
I do believe that psychology is the greatest hurdle for anyone who is actively typing in their trade. Perhaps even for a person who has it automated, but still watches and feels the emotion of a winning/losing trade.
Your comments about the average person are very relevant to me. I feel $1000 much more than a person who has 1 million. It isn't that I can't afford to lose it, I simply know that the traditional way of earning that money takes a lot of time and energy.
Thanks for taking the time to write this. This is great advice, and I will try to put it into practice.
Why? Think about what you just said.
Why would I leave that $100,000 fully exposed when I can leverage $1000, 100 to 1 and get the same benefit? Now, I have only exposed myself to a potential loss of $1000 instead of the full $100,000, but I have the buying power of the full $100,000. I could be an "investor" this way. Leave $99,000 in a high interest bearing account, and leaverage $1000, 100 to 1.
Keep in mind that the accounts HateTheRisk and I trade don't charge you for a negative balance. Isn't that right, HateTheRisk?
Theoretically yes, you can come into a negative.
But in reality no, you get stopped out before with a margin call.
What you have said is very correct, bhardy.
Money is just a tool. Since we use leverage to calculate our risk on the trade, the how much question on the account is not so important.
I can make 100k$ profit in one week, with an 300k$ account, while other traders with lower leverage and an account over 2M to make that kind of profit.
I for some reason i dont know, prefer the first one.
I just want to reach my weekly goal, week by week, and safe a part of the profits....thats the game i play......
The less money i have to trade, compared to my safed money, the better i feel.
Because i hate the risk.
But the more money you can call your own, this becomes irrelevant, because the leverage you can use, decreases with increasing account value.
So if you have 20.000.000,- CHF on Credit Suisse Private Banking FX trading and you have at least 20.000.000,- CHF safed on your Bank account, while 15.000.000,- of that is in Offshore banking time deposit in AUD for 5% interest a year...............off topic.......
then, you dont need any leverage. Maximum the brokerage would allow you anyways is 1 : 10 leverage.
Make it 1 : 2 and your are fine, with that amount.
Have to work now, want to be soon there..........
See you on the other side....
