How many points is reasonable?
- Thread starter themickey
- Start date
No, they are not. I've said on a couple of occasions (and others who seem to know what they are talking about have said similar things) that you can get up to about 3 points/day maximum over time. I'd say anything close to 2 points/day puts you in superstar territory.
2 ES points/day (including Sundays) equals $150K on 5 contracts per trade (pre-commission).
How many ES traders do you think make over $150K/year? A couple thousand? 10,000? Now, how many of them only trade 5 contracts per trade? For traders who make over $150K/year, how many contracts do you think they trade on an average trade? Do you think it's below 5 or above 5? If it's above 5, that means that the traders who make the most trading the ES in a year make less than 2 points/day because they are trading more than 5 contracts. Could there be someone out there making 3-4 points per day on 1 contract? Yes, maybe, but if someone is able to come up with a way to make 3-4 points/day, they are probably intelligent enough to realize that they should be trading way more than 1 contract, so they are probably making $250-300K/year minimum. How many traders are making that kind of money on the ES per year?
Once you start to look at these daily point totals over the course of a year, you start to realize just how much actual dollars they equal, once you factor in the leverage of an ES contract. Once you start to see the dollar amounts, you start to realize just how few traders actually make those amounts in a year.
That's how you come to the conclusion that it's not common at all.
Just being able to overcome commission and fees to be breakeven makes a person in the upper half of traders. Making a living on trading puts you on a higher tier. If you are able to make 5 handles or more on the ES on a daily basis, well you should be quite the millionaire. Using a 100lot, that's 6mil a year. Is it possible? Yes, it is possible, but it is not realistic as a general statement.
If you can average that, incredible.
All the years I been trading, with proper experience can make 2-4 points consistently, but that's it doing volume and best to own or lease a seat, and either quit or reduce contract size after goal is made. But it takes years to understand this. All I ever hear from others is how much they left on the table. Takes so much patience and being able to accept that smaller daily average is how to make money in this game. Trading same size all day will eventually wear you down. Make it early in morning and quit. Start with a one lot and build up, and enjoy your life after you make it.
Totally agree with this Handle.
I have been posting my PL for the last 6 months, the question I get ask is "why not increase the contract size". Slow and consistent is the way to go. On the day I am greedy, I give away what I have made plus more.
I trade for few hours each day, then quit
Start again next day and next day, increase your POT and ENJOY
My broker allowed me to trade 7 ES contracts. At first thought it was crazy to do and my broker strongly advised against it and told me to get good with 1 contract first. Anyway, I got the idea from trading stocks. I had a $36k account and used margin and often made $2,000 per day, some days $5,000. How? by not being afraid. I would take $100,000 positions for minutes or hours. When I went to ES I did well for 2 weeks and one day after arguing with my wife I literally destroyed my account by doing everything I knew I was not supposed to do.
I am on a demo account and I average about $1,500 per day trading 6 contracts. On some days I make $3,000 but not so often. I still trade high beta stocks like CENX and do well.
Anyway, I will trade the demo account for 2 more months and if I see my profits are consistent I will deposit money into my account and trade for real.
I think I got as good as I am because I am a freelance It consultant working from home and I have most of the day to just watch the markets and I have been doing so for about 4 years.
So, no one ever really told me what I could and could not do and I never asked, I just did what I thought I could do and it worked out for me.
I am on a demo account and I average about $1,500 per day trading 6 contracts. On some days I make $3,000 but not so often. I still trade high beta stocks like CENX and do well.
Anyway, I will trade the demo account for 2 more months and if I see my profits are consistent I will deposit money into my account and trade for real.
I think I got as good as I am because I am a freelance It consultant working from home and I have most of the day to just watch the markets and I have been doing so for about 4 years.
So, no one ever really told me what I could and could not do and I never asked, I just did what I thought I could do and it worked out for me.
oh yes, 1 to 2 points a day on ES is quite reasonable on one contract. And if you are an Elite Trader and post here every day I don't see why that would not be possible.
Just think of it, once you start scaling up you would eventually own the world.
Yeah, I would say that's about right, don't go for the moon, just average a simple 1 to 2 points daily. That's what 95% of most professional traders do (and they have read a lot of books.)