How many people here actually make a living?

[ehsmama]

Quote from nitro:

The professionals traders on this site probably eek out a good living. Some are having terrible problems.

On the other hand, if retail traders did only this, they would have a greater chance of succeeding in the long term: Get a job outside of trading hours that pays bills.

Most retail traders jump into trading with their $25k and find out that they can't pay their bills. So they become a statistic.

If you use non-scared money to trade, you can wait to acquire the experience necessary to be successful at some level, and you can wait for nice juicy edges without having to worry or press prematurely. Having a job and not having to draw money from trading account also helps huge. In addition, I have said this before - it is amazing what a huge difference it makes if you learn this business instead of figuring it out. Go and work for someone that does it for a living. You may then understand what sort of things work.

Don't underestimate luck. I know a trader that made $90 millon dollars last year for his firm. His style and system was such that it was tailor made for the events we saw, i.e., credit crisis. This year he is "struggling". My point is though, it wasn't pure luck - he is at a firm where he could take advantage of a special situation because he had access to lots of capital. He had to work hard to get there though and has great [quantitative] trading skills - firms don't take anyone that breathes.

Finally, when your number comes, you have to have the balls and the courage to press hard. This is probably the difference between someone that makes $50k a year, and $2M a year. Traders with true edge almost always squeak out some sort of living. But there is always a year that defines a trader for life.

WRONG WRONG WRONG..........
IF you want to succeed, and I think most can..then make it a full time endeavour and not give up till you find a few edges..easiest and most common of them being TRend following.
But I feel Trend following with small account might take long time for anyone to get to level where they can wothdraw money and live comfortably.
So, small account needs to focus on shorter time frame.to increaseculation of money and at least 3 digit returns while account is small.

 

[Zentrickster]

Quote from ehsmama:

WRONG WRONG WRONG..........
IF you want to succeed, and I think most can..then make it a full time endeavour and not give up till you find a few edges..easiest and most common of them being TRend following.
But I feel Trend following with small account might take long time for anyone to get to level where they can wothdraw money and live comfortably.
So, small account needs to focus on shorter time frame.to increaseculation of money and at least 3 digit returns while account is small.

be careful kids. This is another book reading papertrading hero. 3 digit returns! Trade Like above and blow out. It's a promise!

 

[Eight]

I'm going to try again [this Crimson guy is soooooo serious...]

So Crimson, you ask how much money people make and I answer "Nunja"... then you say "Nunja, what's that mean?".. and then I will answer you.. ok?

OK, go on, your turn...

 

[opt789]

Quote from JORGE:

Results of a retail trader using IB, sweep profits couple times a month.

Yr. Starting cap. Profit
02 35k 61k
03 28k 47k
04 29k 39k
05 28k 103k
06 50k 128k
07 52k 337k
08 108k 528k
09ytd 160k 231k

Worked as a broker from 1995-2001. Discretionary trading, in front of my screen from 5:00-3:30 PST. It takes a lot of commitment, but it is possible to make a living at this.

So with consecutive yearly returns of (assuming they are true):
174%
168%
134%
368%
256%
648%
489%
144% (ytd)
Why not manage opm? These returns make you one of the best traders in the history of the world. You could easily set up a small hedge fund and be making tens of millions a year. I used to be an executive of a small fund and a truly talented trader can hire or outsource all the busy work and non trading related issues so he can just focus on whatever he wants to do. Since, as I said, you can set up a work environment however you want then saying you like the lifestyle of an independent trader and that is why you don’t manage opm doesn’t really make sense. So is your trading methodology not scalable, too risky, etc. to attract opm?

 

[circadian]

I started trading in July 2007 with 20K. I more than tripled it. 2008 was good, results not quite in the 300% range though.

I'm enclosing a copy of my 2007 schedule D for proof, something that I encourage others to do. These results are obviously audited, and finalized for the year 2007. 2008 audited, final results won't be ready until October (tax extension), and if we're still having this discussion then, I'll provide.

Keep in mind, I'm no whale, and trade when I find time as I'm wrapping up my last couple of semesters of school.

 

[gaj]

but i laughed when someone above said "no one makes above 50k three years in a row". what a stupid statement.

i'm reading a book which came out a few years ago called craps underground. i have no interest in playing craps, nor do i want to learn how to toss, but there's a lots of things in the book where i said 'wow, a bunch of that is like trading."

one of them was talking about people who authored gambling books, how the 'legitimate' ones actually still gambled, but those who couldn't do it went around the country actively doing tours, etc. because they couldn't make money from what they were teaching and selling - gambling.

another was how it's a waste of time to try and defend your skill set to someone who doesn't believe it exists.

and as a followup: why is a person who's got one or two posts on here
asking such a personal question about people's finances? like i'd answer them...sheesh.

 

[Zentrickster]

Quote from opt789:

So
Why not manage opm? These returns make you one of the best traders in the history of the world. You could easily set up a small hedge fund and be making tens of millions a year. I used to be an executive of a small fund and a truly talented trader can hire or outsource all the busy work and non trading related issues so he can just focus on whatever he wants to do. Since, as I said, you can set up a work environment however you want then saying you like the lifestyle of an independent trader and that is why you don’t manage opm doesn’t really make sense. So is your trading methodology not scalable, too risky, etc. to attract opm? [/QUOTE




Cause no one will trust or believe the returns. Investors will run from those returns. Get real

 

[total_keops]

Quote from ehsmama:

WRONG WRONG WRONG..........
IF you want to succeed, and I think most can..then make it a full time endeavour and not give up till you find a few edges..easiest and most common of them being TRend following.
But I feel Trend following with small account might take long time for anyone to get to level where they can wothdraw money and live comfortably.
So, small account needs to focus on shorter time frame.to increaseculation of money and at least 3 digit returns while account is small.

And how do you do about paying bills? And did you ever trade with scared money?

 

[Spooz Top]

the real question is how could anyone even live off 50K a year after taxes?

 

[JORGE]

Quote from Zentrickster:

good catch. Why these people need to be trading gods on this site without a journal in near realtime bogles the mind. If and that is a big if he is telling the truth. He WILL blow out very soon taking enough risk to generate that percentage returns.

I have no need to be a "trading god," just letting people know that you can make a living at trading. There are people on the P/L thread who do much better than I.

I trade equities with news driven volatility, about 200,000 shrs a day, 500-2000 shrs at a time. I rarely hold overnight. I increase my size when things are going well and cut way back when things are not. I focus more on consistency than big gains, averaging fewer than 3 losing days a month.

The percentage returns are not as great when considering 4-1 leverage. I don't care if people believe me or not, just showing that it is possible. I'm not selling any service and have no reason to post a journal.