How many does daytraders make in nowadays markets?

Quote from bobcathy1:

Ok.
2 ES points a day is pretty easy on 1 contract to average.
So if you can afford one contract, $25,000 a year is a good guess.

So if I get 2 points on 10 contracts, I make $250,000 a year gross.
Minus computers, fees, programs and all the other stuff it costs to trade. So you will net somewhere around $150,000+ before the tax man takes a chunk.
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So why not trade 100-200 contracts and make millions per year?
 
Quote from abesiki:

I was just wondering how much does professional daytraders make usually per day - including good and bad days - average i mean.
And also quite interesting dilemma for me is - who makes more, futures trader on equities trader (or forex trader but i don`t think so)? I have heard that some guys made couple of years ago about 10,000% procent per year, they discribed it like a good project. So, how much makes professional daytrader in todays markets per year or per day?
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I think he is trying to find out if daytraders make less nowadays or find it harder.

A good trader adapts to trading environment, ranges....etc.

Michael B.
 
Not enough for you to get into it. The majority on this board are dreamers.

Quote from abesiki:

I was just wondering how much does professional daytraders make usually per day - including good and bad days - average i mean.
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Quote from bobcathy1:

Ok.
2 ES points a day is pretty easy on 1 contract to average.
So if you can afford one contract, $25,000 a year is a good guess.

So if I get 2 points on 10 contracts, I make $250,000 a year gross.
Minus computers, fees, programs and all the other stuff it costs to trade. So you will net somewhere around $150,000+ before the tax man takes a chunk.

Now this gets tricky.
If you tend to scalp 1/2 a point at a time.....you will not make much at all. You need to try and take this in at least a 2 point chunk. Those trading fees are killers.
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I don't think 2 ES points a day is easy but it is probably an achievable benchmark. Turns out this was the number I had in mind when looking at developing an ES trading system. I also anticipated trading on average 4 round turns a day. My other assumption is that you would need ten thousand per contract to be able to absorb the inevitable drawdowns. In addition if you were planning on doing this as a primary method of earning a living you would also need six months living expenses in order to allow your system to come to the long run.

Here's the math ...

amount required trade 10000 * 1 = 10000
living expenses (assume a frugal lifestyle ) 6 * 1500 = 9000
Total capital = 19000

Income projections
(2 * 50 ) - (4*4.80) - 10 = 70.80 per day or 17700 per year
or 1475 per month or 8.51 per hour.

You will not be able to grow your account if you trade at this level unless you have a partner to share living expenses. Then you can grow your account exponentially.



Quote from Cutten:



So why not trade 100-200 contracts and make millions per year?
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This question is easy to answer. You will need 10000 * 100 = a 1 million dollar account to trade at this level.



Note that this assumes that your system or method does in fact have an advantage and that that advantage is approximately equal to 2 ES points a day on one contract.

If daytrading stocks you would need to cover data fees , transaction costs , that are higher yet and office charges if you traded in an office. I would guess you could make 50k per year on a 50k account if you were good, but how many are?
 
Income projections
(2 * 50 ) - (4*4.80) - 10 = 70.80 per day or 17700 per year
or 1475 per month or 8.51 per hour.


What was the 10 again? (in bold text above)

Michael B.
 
amount required trade 10000 * 1 = 10000


Please explain this....what was your drawdown again? would you have more than one contract on at once? How did you calculate risk again?

Michael B.
 
Quote from ElectricSavant:

Income projections
(2 * 50 ) - (4*4.80) - 10 = 70.80 per day or 17700 per year
or 1475 per month or 8.51 per hour.


What was the 10 again? (in bold text above)

Michael B.
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I guess I missed that. The 10.00 per day was an estimate of the dat feed costs.

The 10000 was an estimate of the amount you would need per e-mini contract to be safe from drawdowns or put another way , a run of bad luck.
 
Quote from ElectricSavant:

amount required trade 10000 * 1 = 10000


Please explain this....what was your drawdown again? would you have more than one contract on at once? How did you calculate risk again?

Michael B.
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The drawdown is an maximum amount your account eqiuty declines from a high point before rising to a new high point.

In this example you would only have one contract opeen per time.

I did not give an example of risk calculation but have done some testing on e-mini systems I developed. Even some with good records had drawdowns of about 100 points, not one trade but a net losing streak of 100 points. That's 5000 on an e-mini + the margin of 3700 and add a lille extra for safety and you get 10000 per contract.

If you can develop a system that has less drawdowns then you could get by with a smaller capital requirement per contract.
 
Quote from whowah:



The drawdown is an maximum amount your account eqiuty declines from a high point before rising to a new high point.

In this example you would only have one contract opeen per time.

I did not give an example of risk calculation but have done some testing on e-mini systems I developed. Even some with good records had drawdowns of about 100 points, not one trade but a net losing streak of 100 points. That's 5000 on an e-mini + the margin of 3700 and add a lille extra for safety and you get 10000 per contract.

If you can develop a system that has less drawdowns then you could get by with a smaller capital requirement per contract.
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Holding intraday with stops in place might change this drawdown calculation. Also intraday margins in the US are somewhat relaxed.

Michael B.
 
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