How long $3000 will last option trading

Thanks for the encouragement. Actually, I use simple TA such as moving average. I try not to sell spread against the trend. Also, I don't sell put spread on the day when a stock price is up. I sell only on the day when a stock is down. I really have to restrain myself when I see the stock I'm watching run up and can't do anything.

I hope my method increase expectancy somewhat. I am interested in energy and tech stocks. There are about 25 of them I follow and when it drops, I really want to take advantage of it. So, I guess I will take a shot anyway if they were the stocks I know well.

Quote from flyers&divers:

I disagree with people who think you are diversified too much and there are some comments from people who do not understand the essence of credit spread trading.

They are legions of people who believe that trading is a zero expectancy game and in this case the $1.50 reward for $5 risk is not high enough.

First, in a credit spread trade you are dealing with out of the money options and time decay is also in your favor. In addition
even the use of the simplest TA such as volatility bands and MA's increases positive expectancy of the trade and you can use all kinds of other info as well like ZAKS and S&P ratings, seasonals, sentiment, special events etc. and you are no longer shooting fish in a barrel like it is assumed in these conversations.

People don't realize or I have not seen it mentioned that there is a different relationship to expectancy here: unlike outright positions credit spreads work most of the time and one's focus is not on cutting one's losses and letting one's profits run but minimizing the effect of the occasional large loss.

Sometimes when the stock moves against the position one can wiggle out of it or adjust or simply take a(complete or partial)loss. The worst case is a takeover or delisting or adverse guidance. In that case you are toast, and this is why it is good to be broadly diversified.

I am a swing trader and along my outright positions I always have opportunistic spreads on for a turn. Recently I had some on in the gaming stocks battered by Katrina, in the poultry and bio stocks playing the Avian Flu theme, I also had put spreads on gold stocks which I just took off and I am starting to put on bearish spreads on the indices because based on my TA and sentiment work the markets may be trading from sideways to lower from here on. Of course, one has to pay attention to TA with these trades too.

Someone could say that in a larger sample of trades the win-loss ratio would stay constant therefore diversifying further is not productive, I say that the occasional large losses would be likely spread out in a larger sample so it would still help smoothing the equity curve.

The truth is, and most people are not willing to face this (even people in the business), that you should not trade at all until you figured out a method or technique that gives you and edge and beyond that you need to manage yourself and trades well to be successful. Still, the possibility of surviving trading spreads is enhanced by the the benefit of time decay.
 
I try to increase expectancy by trying to forecast underlying price. I use vertical spread mostly because I don't know how to predict volatility.

Thanks for the reminding on the market conditions. I'll switch it as soon as it stops working and I won't just trade the spread only. I prefer condor or files but I don't see a good trade for now.

Quote from cnms2:

Simply put: there is no options strategy (including credit spreads) that works better than the other strategies (except arbitrage) in all market conditions.

I'm one of the people that concluded that any options strategy has a negative expectancy because of the slippage and commissions.

In order to make money from options trading you have to correctly forecast either one or both of the underlying price and future implied volatility of the options you're trading.

Selling credit spreads to enjoy the negative theta is an illusion for those who don't understand the risk they're taking.

Selling naked options is not riskier probabilistically, but sets you up to be hit by one of those outliners (called also black swans) that will ruin you.
 
I decide to take profit on aapl. My reason is that it ran up quite fast and may come back down a bit along with the markets. Then, I can put on 60/65 credit spread later.

Close AAPL 50/55 DEC credit put spread for $0.15. Profit $1.35. Now I reduce my lost on previous XEO to about $165.

Open 1 VLO 85/90 JAN credit put spread for $1.40. I got it around the middle from b/a spread.

Reason: VLO took a sharp drop today.

Looking to sell credit spread on SUN if it drops more.
 
There are different opinions about options strategies' expectancy. I agree with those that think that options are fairly priced and that all options strategies have zero expectancy when you don't consider costs (slippage and commissions). The only way to increase expectancy is to leg in at different underlying prices or implied volatilities, so that the final position's cost is less than its cost to open now.

I.e. you want to open a vertical spread on an underlying that you think is breaking up. Spread's bid / ask is .9 / 1. Instead of buying it for $1, you bto the long leg, then place a limit order to sto the short leg, so that the total cost will be .9 or less (long's debit less short's credit less commissions). This means that the spread appreciated in value, let's say to 1 / 1.1, while your cost is .9. You have positive expectancy at this moment.

In my opinion your method doesn't increase your expectancy, if you define expectancy as I assume:

expectancy = (profit_amount * probability_of_profit) - (loss_amount * probability_of_loss)

Quote from skanan:

Thanks for the encouragement. Actually, I use simple TA such as moving average. I try not to sell spread against the trend. Also, I don't sell put spread on the day when a stock price is up. I sell only on the day when a stock is down. I really have to restrain myself when I see the stock I'm watching run up and can't do anything.

I hope my method increase expectancy somewhat. I am interested in energy and tech stocks. There are about 25 of them I follow and when it drops, I really want to take advantage of it. So, I guess I will take a shot anyway if they were the stocks I know well.
 
Quote from cnms2:


In my opinion your method doesn't increase your expectancy, if you define expectancy as I assume:

expectancy = (profit_amount * probability_of_profit) - (loss_amount * probability_of_loss)

Thanks for the explanation! I agree with you. I have different question. Suppose this is the situation:

1. Sell 1 contract xyz 50/55 credit spread $1

After 5 days, xyz does not change

2. Now Sell 1 more contract xyz 50/55 $0.90

Since now the fair market value of xyz is $0.90 but we sold 2 contracts average price (1+0.9)/2 = $0.95. Would you say our expectancy is positive ?
 
You can say that. This is called pyramiding.
Quote from skanan:

Thanks for the explanation! I agree with you. I have different question. Suppose this is the situation:

1. Sell 1 contract xyz 50/55 credit spread $1

After 5 days, xyz does not change

2. Now Sell 1 more contract xyz 50/55 $0.90

Since now the fair market value of xyz is $0.90 but we sold 2 contracts average price (1+0.9)/2 = $0.95. Would you say our expectancy is positive ?
 
I had a calendar diag here:

1x SPY -123 DEC + 121 JAN diag put spread for 0.10 debit.

Bought back DEC 123 for 0.15 :
reason: DEC 123 does not have much time value left. Also, the market went up to almost 1270.

Real Profit on DEC 123 $1. paper lost on JAN 121 (now trade for $0.45) $0.85 So, I captured the time difference for $0.15.

Looking to sell 123,124, or 125 JAN put tomorrow.
 
Quote from flyers&divers:

I disagree with people who think you are diversified too much and there are some comments from people who do not understand the essence of credit spread trading.

They are legions of people who believe that trading is a zero expectancy game and in this case the $1.50 reward for $5 risk is not high enough.

First, in a credit spread trade you are dealing with out of the money options and time decay is also in your favor. In addition
even the use of the simplest TA such as volatility bands and MA's increases positive expectancy of the trade and you can use all kinds of other info as well like ZAKS and S&P ratings, seasonals, sentiment, special events etc. and you are no longer shooting fish in a barrel like it is assumed in these conversations.

People don't realize or I have not seen it mentioned that there is a different relationship to expectancy here: unlike outright positions credit spreads work most of the time and one's focus is not on cutting one's losses and letting one's profits run but minimizing the effect of the occasional large loss.

Sometimes when the stock moves against the position one can wiggle out of it or adjust or simply take a(complete or partial)loss. The worst case is a takeover or delisting or adverse guidance. In that case you are toast, and this is why it is good to be broadly diversified.

I am a swing trader and along my outright positions I always have opportunistic spreads on for a turn. Recently I had some on in the gaming stocks battered by Katrina, in the poultry and bio stocks playing the Avian Flu theme, I also had put spreads on gold stocks which I just took off and I am starting to put on bearish spreads on the indices because based on my TA and sentiment work the markets may be trading from sideways to lower from here on. Of course, one has to pay attention to TA with these trades too.

Someone could say that in a larger sample of trades the win-loss ratio would stay constant therefore diversifying further is not productive, I say that the occasional large losses would be likely spread out in a larger sample so it would still help smoothing the equity curve.

The truth is, and most people are not willing to face this (even people in the business), that you should not trade at all until you figured out a method or technique that gives you and edge and beyond that you need to manage yourself and trades well to be successful. Still, the possibility of surviving trading spreads is enhanced by the the benefit of time decay.

Well Said #2
 
The spy dropped a bit so I sold 124 put for $1.05. Now I rolled the 123/121 calendar diag to 124/121 vertical put spread. The fair price of this one is 50 cents. Since I made 15 cents from the roll, my expectancy is 15 cents better than fair value.

Quote from skanan:

I had a calendar diag here:

1x SPY -123 DEC + 121 JAN diag put spread for 0.10 debit.

Bought back DEC 123 for 0.15 :
reason: DEC 123 does not have much time value left. Also, the market went up to almost 1270.

Real Profit on DEC 123 $1. paper lost on JAN 121 (now trade for $0.45) $0.85 So, I captured the time difference for $0.15.

Looking to sell 123,124, or 125 JAN put tomorrow.
 
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