how important is the entry and how complicated does it need to be?

[Don Bright]

Originally posted by daniel_m
Don...I don't mean to be unduly harsh (you're used to it anywaY!), but you seem to respond like Pavlovian dog with the same canned response any time the words "entry" and "exit" are mentioned..

Why do you automatically assume that everyone here is trading for 20cents?? It's practically a trading "fact" that the longer your time frame (you know:hours, days, weeks) the less important entry is and the more important exits are..

Hi Daniel, no offense taken...but I stand by what I said, regardless of the time frame involved, and the amount of profit you might seek. My example of the entry and exits for pennies was just to show that both are equally important .....because you can always get back into another trade with a good entry point.....and look for a clear exit signal. Each entry and exit is just like one hand of cards being dealt to you to do the best you can with....

Don

 

[Breakout]

Originally posted by tntneo
after thinking about it, I think Don says it best, although I stated something different.

entry and exit are equally important.
OK, I can live with that.

I still have the feeling that a majority of the effort is in the exit. but OK, that does not mean it's more important.


tntneo

I agree with that as well. The entry and exit are both
important. You can't just flip a coin for your entry.

I definitely agree that the exit takes more effort. It's
tuff to sit there when your position is showing a nice
profit, but you still haven't quite reached your profit
objective.

 

[macal425]

Originally posted by Breakout


I definitely agree that the exit takes more effort. It's
tuff to sit there when your position is showing a nice
profit, but you still haven't quite reached your profit
objective.

I think one of the problems is that, when you're trade becomes profitable, the R:R becomes less. If a trade gets to within say 1 or 2 ticks of your objective 'at that point' the R:R is terrible. Your mind is aware of this and is always fighting it. You may have brought your stop to b/e (or wherever) so it seems like a good trade but as it gets closer to the objective there's a little guy inside your brain yelling " you want me to risk 4+ points back to b/e to pick up a measly little tick or two for your system. Screw that, I'm getting out now"

 

[Breakout]

Originally posted by Don Bright


Each entry and exit is just like one hand of cards being dealt to you to do the best you can with....

Don

Hi Don...I'm not so sure that's such a good analogy. Trading
is a profession. I've never been inside a casino, and I
don't really have any desire to visit a casino. I already
know who's going to win.

And I know that if I sit down at a table with a professional
card player, it won't matter what cards I get...I'm gonna
go home broke.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Originally posted by Breakout
With all do respect to those who think the entry isn't
important. I have to disagree.

There are certain times when going short or long is a no-brainer.

lol breakout.. i liked the chart.

 

[Breakout]

Originally posted by macal425


there's a little guy inside your brain yelling " you want me to risk 4+ points back to b/e to pick up a measly little tick or two for your system. Screw that, I'm getting out now"

LOL...I know the feeling

 

[Gordon Gekko]

breakout and daniel_m,

i noticed you two were debating if breakout's chart would influence you not to be long. you may be interested in the following question (i am):

Originally posted in another thread by jperl
To bring this thread back to the center, here are four NASDAQ stocks whose number of updays(close to close) over the past 100 days is very low:

percent updays
LRCX 37%
TMPW 37
AAPL 36
LRCX 34

Question: Would this data influence your decision to short these stocks at the close of today? Or if your system tester suggested a long entry tomorrow, would the above info influence your decision not to take the long?

this gets back to the question, if this data should not influence you, then what should?! why bother looking for upsloping moving averages or whatever? why bother even looking for a trend??? unless, the above information SHOULD influence your decision. this is what i'm talking about....if the typical things traders are looking for for entries don't matter, how important is the entry?! if the above is not important, what type of entry is important?!

 

[murray t turtle]

Echo that rtharp + books quote.

''Keep it simple''Gordon G quote

Keeping it simple, I like a precision,super selected entry for a day trade. Keeping it simple , I like a precision, super selected entry for a swing trade.

If an entry is 1 out of 100 + things to look on;surely is easier when your entry turns profitable early. 1 % or more adds up over a long time.

--------------------------------

''Develop your own trading methodology,then you really need this book. Jack Schwager on DR. Van Tharp book cover''

 

[daniel_m]

Gekko,
re breakout's chart, I personally would not have been going long at that point, but I can well understand how some people might...some people make a lot of money playing 'overbought/oversold'...and THAT point that breakout mentioned could easily have been a place where such a trader would enter long..
my point was that there really aren't any intrinsically 'obvious' entry points...that how 'obvious' an entry is depends on your trading style..

(hopefully you have some conception of what i mean by 'trading style'..)

 

[Breakout]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko
breakout and daniel_m,

i noticed you two were debating if breakout's chart would influence you not to be long. you may be interested in the following question (i am):


this gets back to the question, if this data should not influence you, then what should?! why bother looking for upsloping moving averages or whatever? why bother even looking for a trend??? unless, the above information SHOULD influence your decision. this is what i'm talking about....if the typical things traders are looking for for entries don't matter, how important is the entry?! if the above is not important, what type of entry is important?!

Hey Gordon...I think it's fair to say that these stocks are in
a down trend. I'm pretty much a believer in the old saying...
"The Trend is Your Friend", so, if my system tester told me
to go long, I'd probably pass.

And as far as shorting those stocks at the close, I can't really
give an answer, because I don't hold overnight.