how far ahead of us is institutional trading?

[Specterx]

Explaining it to you would be like discussing it with a pigeon.

I lol’ed, gotta remember that one.

 

[nonpln]

My. Did you know that if you can make 10-15% a year “without a ton of difficulty” in a scaleable way, you can a) lever up and make 20-30% a year and/or b) start a fund, have investors beat down your door, and become a multi-millionaire with absolutely zero risk?

Yes, well aware so what? What good does that do me right now? scalable? I trade ES and NQ it's plenty scalable. Besides by the time liquidity even comes close to being an issue I'll be where I want to be.

Let's see netting $5.00 a day on average(0.2% gains) on a $2,500.00 account would be 50.4% per year. That means you need to capture 3.25 mnq points on 1 micro per day, which would actually cover commissions and net more than $5.00 a day.

10-15% a year isn't "without a ton of difficulty" that is starvation rate for day trading. Assuming you're comfortable trading the size and not trading a massive portfolio then if all you can do is 10-15% a year you do not have a true edge and there's no way you understand the markets at a deep level, it's almost impossible.

Now if you're trading like 20-50 million + portfolio and/or you're not extremely comfortable with the size you're trading. Then clearly it's exponentially more difficult to produce 50% returns a year, that's obvious.

Again that's irrelevant to me though. Like I said by the time liquidity becomes an issue I'll be where I want / need to be.

 

[rb7]

This is incorrect... Pico has collocated exchange feeds like many other private vendors.

These Private Feeds are very fast - collocated - very expensive... Thousands $

Private (like the term private equity, private business, private real estate) Means you pay major bucks to use them.

and There is a Public Feed system... The consolidated feeds that are legally mandated by the US Gov (public) to provide the NBBO... that are very inexpensive and much slower.

IBKR... Interactive Brokers subscription fee for Consolidated A,B,C costs $4.00 to $5.00 a month.

This is... See Jim Jump Over Jane... English Description Definitions.

1. Pico.net has coLocated direct exchange feeds in New Jersey, Chicago and all over the world
They are Private feeds... they are direct exchange feeds.. You pay a lot for them. Many other private feed vendors do this too. Pico.net is just one.

I provided a PDF on this... White Paper... In a prior post that details this.

https://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/hender/nbbo.pdf

2. The Consolidated Feed, SIP, is NO where near as fast and is very cheap to get and sometimes free.

Colocated or not, they are market data feed vendor.
They connect to each direct exchange feed, and redistribute them to their clients.
Market participants who want to have the fastest feeds connect directly to exchanges. They don't go through market data vendor, cause each of them add latency.

Seems like Pico marketing guys are good...

 

[newwurldmn]

I mean of course that's what it means man. If you objectively break everything down and actually look at what people are trading, how they are trading and the things they say as to why they are trading it. You will find that is people's #1 way here to make money and turn a profit.

What would you say in general would be what people are using to make money in their retirement accounts? Time.

Someone who is "buying the dip" and holding a position. What is a large part of that? Of course time and being long.

Nothing wrong with swing trading there's obvious benefits to that as mentioned, but if you truly have a deeper understanding of the markets and a particular edge why would you not want to use a multiplier by moving down to a smaller time frame? The only reason would be either A) you already have so much money you value your free time over sitting in front of the screen or B) You really don't have a deep understanding or your edge isn't a big or as quantifiable as you claim.

Therefore whether or not you want to believe or understand it, you're simply using the defacto method to make money.

All investments earn over time, whether it be milliseconds or years.

Yes, well aware so what? What good does that do me right now? scalable? I trade ES and NQ it's plenty scalable. Besides by the time liquidity even comes close to being an issue I'll be where I want to be.

Let's see netting $5.00 a day on average(0.2% gains) on a $2,500.00 account would be 50.4% per year. That means you need to capture 3.25 mnq points on 1 micro per day, which would actually cover commissions and net more than $5.00 a day.

10-15% a year isn't "without a ton of difficulty" that is starvation rate for day trading. Assuming you're comfortable trading the size and not trading a massive portfolio then if all you can do is 10-15% a year you do not have a true edge and there's no way you understand the markets at a deep level, it's almost impossible.

Now if you're trading like 20-50 million + portfolio and/or you're not extremely comfortable with the size you're trading. Then clearly it's exponentially more difficult to produce 50% returns a year, that's obvious.

Again that's irrelevant to me though. Like I said by the time liquidity becomes an issue I'll be where I want / need to be.

5 dollars/day is starvation rate.

Brick layers in India make more. Sweatshop owners

 

[nonpln]

All investments earn over time, whether it be milliseconds or years.


5 dollars/day is starvation rate.

Brick layers in India make more. Sweatshop owners

Nice deflection, but there's a difference between measuring a trade by time and time being the main component as to why you're making money.

So, if you really think your statement makes sense and you're not relying on time as a major component why don't you go down to a smaller time frame and use the exponential? Oh yeah that question answers itself doesn't it?

5 dollars a day what just an example to show the ridiculousness of claiming you understand the markets at a deep level and have an edge, but making 10-15% per year you think is difficult. That's absurd unless either A) you're trading a very large portfolio or B) you're not very comfortable with the sizing of your trades.

 

[Yik]

Pot meet kettle. What did you offer to my thread? All you did was repeat and parrot the same talking points that almost anyone else would. All while feigning like it's great advice for me.

Either A) You don't have very much knowledge regarding "day trading equity futures" since you aren't aware of what's possible. B) You do but you made an assumption that there's no way I figured it out.

Zero value for me, so thanks for that I guess.

@poopy is one of the best d1 trader on this board. He also literally posted an arb on a 2.5tr mega cap company on your thread yet you just brushed it off and did not even bother to ask. When those pros say you really lack the knowledge its probably true. I don't imply that I am good but I recognise my shortcomings and try to improve.

Regarding the topic. Its like retail traders are in the bronze age but Institutional traders are in space exploration in terms of infrastructure.

 

[Slow Learning Elf]

That still doesn't mean they can day trade necessarily.

I'll be the first one to admit that I can't day-trade. In fact, any time I override my model, I expect it to have negative expected value, especially if it is a short-term trade. Does not make me a bad portfolio manager,

But if you can't make at least 50% a year return on what you're trading, assuming there's no liquidity issues AND you're very comfortable with the size your trading, then you don't really have that strong of an edge or you don't understand the markets at a very high level. You're most likely using advantages, not edges.

I trade index vol, it's pretty liquid, but there is no way I can make anything close to 50% on my allocation (250) with any type of consistency. You need to return to the land of the living and realize that trading is hard.

 

[newwurldmn]

I’m done with this. You clearly have it all figured it out; unlike all those other guys before you.

Your 6 weeks show you are a great trader. You won’t ever blow up and will with 100percent certainty turn 250 to 20mm in your lifetime.

I would say good luck, but you don’t need it.

Nice deflection, but there's a difference between measuring a trade by time and time being the main component as to why you're making money.

So, if you really think your statement makes sense and you're not relying on time as a major component why don't you go down to a smaller time frame and use the exponential? Oh yeah that question answers itself doesn't it?

5 dollars a day what just an example to show the ridiculousness of claiming you understand the markets at a deep level and have an edge, but making 10-15% per year you think is difficult. That's absurd unless either A) you're trading a very large portfolio or B) you're not very comfortable with the sizing of your trades.

 

[Laissez Faire]

LOL. The 'debate' keeps going.

@poopy, @newwurldmn, @Slow Learning Elf, etc.:

Why on earth would you guys spends so much time debating with @nonpln and other retail small timers here? It's like the bullies from school all over again or like an adult that's arguing with, eh, a child.

Poopy even said he thinks the guy is on the spectrum, yet he keeps on going with the guy. That's a not a good look. The point is taken a long time ago.

@nonpln,

Why on earth do you keep going on like this? You're wasting valuable time and energy which should be spent honing your craft and learning more.

A comment from SLE really hit home: "This shit is hard."

And that's coming from a guy who from what I've understood is an institutional trader with 20 + years of experience.

The proof is in the pudding. You're trading 2 micros with a bucket shop. Until you've accumulated substantial sums or returns with your trading methodology, you really should humble yourself and don't act like you figured it all out.

At the end of the day/week/month/year, the only thing that matters is your P&L. Not knowledge, methodology, set-ups, risk-management, etc., but cold and hard executions that are either making money for you or not.

If you want to win this debate, the only way to do it is to actually post your executions and/or P&L. No ifs and buts. Nobody is going to believe that you have a high degree of market knowledge or skills unless you show something of value.

I'm 10 +++ years into this game and spent a great deal of my adult life trying to build a profitable day trading model. I truly regret the day I was stupid enough to pursue this path, but I was probably lured into it by guys who most likely weren't making sh*t themselves, yet have the audacity to be lecturing others and giving out 'advice'. That's probably 95 % of the posters here by the way.

Now, after 10 +++ years and a f*ck ton of studies, research, full time trading, experience and proprietary research (including a custom statistical model) I feel I'm at a point where I may have a chance at actually making this work. But until I've amassed a small fortune from this, I'm going to stay humble and won't be making any claims about this or that.

I've done really well recently in my own D1 trading of index futures, but I'm honestly still at a point where I'm questioning my own results and open to the fact that it can be partially luck. If one acts like it's skill when one wins and bad luck when one loses, one is really naive, IMHO. Question everything and stay humble, IMHO.

I would never advice anyone to pursue day trading because I know very well how difficult it is. Most people are much better off just investing or swing trading with low leverage while increasing their income and keep piling that into the market making conservative (but more certain) returns that compound over time.

In summary, I do think it can be done, but the chances for an independent retail trader figuring out all this on his own and making outsized returns from it are slim at best. Yet, it seems like everyone thinks they'll be the exception.

 

[poopy]

I like to argue?

Absent a demur = tacit agreement and nothing the guy writes makes any sense. So if you quote me with stupidity you're probably getting a reply.

Day-trading isn't about frequency (albeit it excludes o/n holds); it's about being flat EOD. Being forced to close is a capital issue. Any swing trade can benefit from the intraday margin and choose to carry it o/n. There are plenty of ppl on here trading 0DTE vol and are therefore "day trading" due to exp. Nothing at all to do with haircut.

And yeah, I think he's spectrummy.