how far ahead of us is institutional trading?

[poopy]

What's the matter man? it's all fun and games when you're bullshitting someone else trying to have a legit conversation isn't it? Now that I am ready to play your game, looks like you're on the other end of that now and not having too much fun spending your time with a worthless debate? Glad you can see things through my point of view now.

I am done punching down. You're fond of stating that ppl are "putting words in my mouth" when I agree with none of your arguments, but you end most posts with "we're in agreement" which is a pathetic ploy.

The knowledge gap is too severe and you're not very bright. It's worthless because you lack the aforementioned.

 

[nonpln]

I am done punching down. You're fond of stating that ppl are "putting words in my mouth" when I agree with noe of your arguments, but you end most posts with "we're in agreement" which is a pathetic ploy.

The knowledge gap is too severe and you're not very bright. It's worthless because you lack the aforementioned.

Asked the most straight forward questions yet and those are the ones you choose to ignore and not respond to? lol

Do you believe most people can trade well? Yes or No
Do you believe most people on this forum are taking mainly long positions? Yes or No
Do you believe majority of people on this forum are using mainly time? Yes or No

So for days and days you respond to my post incredibly quickly and follow me in EVERY SINGLE thread I post in. But don't have time to answer 3 direct yes or no questions?

Ok, whatever man. Enjoy your weekend.

 

[newwurldmn]

Yeah, there is no comparison. Two different things. I wouldn't be surprised though if they were equally behind (if they were to swap rolls).

For example take away all their advantages (resources, capital ,access to information, technical tools and being part of a larger support group) and make them day trade without that and most of them would fall apart. At the very least they would be unlikely to produce a livable income.

Take an intelligent person, train them and give them access to all the above and they would have just as much chance of turning a livable wage (if not more so) than the other way around. That's going to hurt a lot of people's pride on here for sure.

Asked the most straight forward questions yet and those are the ones you choose to ignore and not respond to? lol

Do you believe most people can trade well? Yes or No
Do you believe most people on this forum are taking mainly long positions? Yes or No
Do you believe majority of people on this forum are using mainly time Yes or No

So for days and days you respond to my post incredibly quickly and follow me in EVERY SINGLE thread I post in. But don't have time to answer 3 direct yes or no questions?

Ok, whatever man. Enjoy your weekend.

What does time mean?
like you put on a position and some time later it moves in your favor?

 

[nonpln]

What does time mean?
like you put on a position and some time later it moves in your favor?

I mean of course that's what it means man. If you objectively break everything down and actually look at what people are trading, how they are trading and the things they say as to why they are trading it. You will find that is people's #1 way here to make money and turn a profit.

What would you say in general would be what people are using to make money in their retirement accounts? Time.

Someone who is "buying the dip" and holding a position. What is a large part of that? Of course time and being long.

Nothing wrong with swing trading there's obvious benefits to that as mentioned, but if you truly have a deeper understanding of the markets and a particular edge why would you not want to use a multiplier by moving down to a smaller time frame? The only reason would be either A) you already have so much money you value your free time over sitting in front of the screen or B) You really don't have a deep understanding or your edge isn't a big or as quantifiable as you claim.

Therefore whether or not you want to believe or understand it, you're simply using the defacto method to make money.

 

[Slow Learning Elf]

For example take away all their advantages (resources, capital ,access to information, technical tools and being part of a larger support group) and make them day trade without that and most of them would fall apart. At the very least they would be unlikely to produce a livable income.

Take an intelligent person, train them and give them access to all the above and they would have just as much chance of turning a livable wage (if not more so) than the other way around.

The first part is not true. I know a lot of people who retired from institutional trading roles and now are successfully trading their own account. There is a lot of low capacity alpha around, but you need skills and knowledge to find and extract it.

The second part is obvious. If you take a very smart guy, give him a job for a prop firm or a bank for a few years they will have the necessary experience to make money if given the necessary infrastructure. However, that guy has to be smart and has to have the right education (math, stats, CS) and has to have a modicum of knowledge about the field. And he still might fail, I’ve seen that a lot.

Your argument reminds of all the guys who think they can be competitive in Formula 1 if only they got a chance. The “reasonably priced car” challenge on Top Gear proves that it’s a fantasy.

 

[wxytrader]

It's quite the rabbit hole of obfuscation. Although dated, Lewis's "FlashBoys", Patterson's "Dark Pools" and Hiam Bodek's work provide some windows into the world. Exchange docs used to be a good source but as Bodek exposed, much of it from an HFT pov are "undocumented" order types.

"Institutional" is broad term, they as a whole are also gamed by SLP's.


Tabb Group did a series of articles on the emergence of HFTs about a decade old now.

View attachment 340848

View attachment 340849

As a bird's eye view, Mary Jo White's "Enhancing Our Equity Market Structure" is a good place to start.
https://www.sec.gov/news/speech/2014-spch060514mjw#.U-td22N5WEc

You won't beat them with options. No chance...that's their bread and butter.

 

[nonpln]

The first part is not true. I know a lot of people who retired from institutional trading roles and now are successfully trading their own account. There is a lot of low capacity alpha around, but you need skills and knowledge to find and extract it.

The second part is obvious. If you take a very smart guy, give him a job for a prop firm or a bank for a few years they will have the necessary experience to make money if given the necessary infrastructure. However, that guy has to be smart and has to have the right education (math, stats, CS) and has to have a modicum of knowledge about the field. And he still might fail, I’ve seen that a lot.

Your argument reminds of all the guys who think they can be competitive in Formula 1 if only they got a chance. The “reasonably priced car” challenge on Top Gear proves that it’s a fantasy.

Not sure by just saying not true and a lot is quite enough to unequivocally say I am incorrect in the broader scale. That's just your experience. I mean if by a lot you're saying like 100's of people then ok. I may need to reconsider. If by a lot you mean like 3-10, doesn't do much to convince me. As I've seen a lot of people in the same situation that could not do that.

A lot of low capacity alpha around I agree with that. That's what I am trying to explain to poopy that despite their being disadvantages there's a lot of advantages to what I am doing like flexibility. I guess his argument is more that I am just too stupid to find it, fair enough.

Lastly the second part being obvious was part of my point. You are aware that just because something is obvious, doesn't necessarily take away from a point correct?

 

[poopy]

Can we leave the thread to members who have the requisite experience? Thanks for your support.

It's in the title of the thread.

 

[nonpln]

Can we leave the thread to members who have the requisite experience? Thanks for your support.

Can we let people journal in peace without following them around to every thread, repeating ad nauseam that they don't believe them? Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[poopy]

Can we let people journal in peace without following them around to every thread, repeating ad nauseam that they don't believe them? Thanks for your cooperation.

I didn't reply to you and you offer nothing to this thread.