How does the SEC's definition of a trader effect me?

[ANCHOR]

Nutsneal,

I am sure that your post on the rules is correct. But what does it really matter when the brokers will not let you trade with your money for 3 days anyway (such as IB)? If the brokers will not let you trade the money for 3 days you are screwed, regardless of how the ruling is suppose to work. I am just saying that it will be hard to day trade with less than 25K once some brokers stop allowing "free rides".

And yes day trade, open and close a position of a particular stock=one trade.

 

[NUTSNEAL]

One other thing I forgot to mention, the PDT rule does not apply to options, which are T+1 for settlement.

 

[ANCHOR]

You are also free to trade futures as much as you like with smaller account balances.

 

[NUTSNEAL]

Originally posted by ANCHOR
You are also free to trade futures as much as you like with smaller account balances.

Yes, this might be a good solution.

But for stocks there are brokers who understand the free riding rules and use them to the maximum benefit of traders. Maybe IB doesn't do this. I don't know because I have never used them. But if anyone is trading stocks with less than $25,000 in their account, they are at a big disadvantage if their broker makes them wait until settlement to use the proceeds for another trade.

 

[ANCHOR]

Originally posted by NUTSNEAL

But if anyone is trading stocks with less than $25,000 in their account, they are at a big disadvantage if their broker makes them wait until settlement to use the proceeds for another trade.

Couldn't agree more. Wait 3 days to trade again, forget about it.

 

[max401]

How many times can a turnover that money now? MyTrack used to give the buying power back after each sale, i.e. you could trade stock XYZ in and out 300 times a day in true daytrader fashion. Is this not possible with new clearing policies? Not with IB?

 

[birchy]

Originally posted by NUTSNEAL

But for stocks there are brokers who understand the free riding rules and use them to the maximum benefit of traders. Maybe IB doesn't do this. I don't know because I have never used them.

How can we find out which brokers release the funds immediately?

 

[NUTSNEAL]

Sorry I don't know which brokers do or don't.

Just call and ask them. You might have to talk to someone in compliance to be sure. Sometimes the sales people give answers which are incorrect.

Good Luck

 

[ANCHOR]

Originally posted by max401
How many times can a turnover that money now? MyTrack used to give the buying power back after each sale, i.e. you could trade stock XYZ in and out 300 times a day in true daytrader fashion. Is this not possible with new clearing policies? Not with IB?

If you trade on margin with more than 25K you have nothing to worry about.

 

[NUTSNEAL]

Under the PDT rules you can turn over your buying power as many times as you want each day. You must maintain a minimum $25,000 equity balance. Also you are required to meet your largest required margin at any point during the day. With most direct access brokers you do not need to worry about spending an amount greater than your buying power because the software will not allow it. But this is part of the firm or clearing firm POLICY, not part of the regs. Some traders, even retail, are allowed to trade huge size (many many times their buying power) as long as the money to satisfy the trade is in the account by settlement day, T+3. This was quite common a few years ago. It is not nearly as common now, but is still legal and still done regularly for good reliable clients (broker trusts the client to pay because if they didn't the broker would have to cover the trades).