How does "Market Open" affect your trading

[ElectricSavant]

seems like the safest route to go...I think those guys at Bright will always find the "loopholes"...in trading..I mean this in a good way and they know what I mean...

Arbing and "cashing in" on a professional advantage...is long, slow and steady...but the way I like it!

hit the singles.... traders, many times....work for it!

Quote from Don Bright:

We definitely do openings during bootcamp, it's nice to have new traders feel confident early on. We are focusing a lot more on Pairs and other arbs + automation and hybrid changes, etc. As the market changes, we adapt as much as we can.

The boot camp speeds up the learning curve by 6-12 months, and that could avoid a lot of $$ and headaches.

Don

 

[jimclark]

Don,
I am looking for your bootcamp dates and pricing.

How much is it and when?

Thanks.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from jimclark:

Don,
I am looking for your bootcamp dates and pricing.

How much is it and when?

Thanks.

3 day school is Jan 15=17, boot camp starts the next Monday on the 22nd.

You need to be set up with the Firm for bootcamp. Many take the 3 day and then take S7 exam and then come to the next boot camp. We try to do about 4 of these per year.

Happy New Year, Jim.... I hope you've picked up some ideas from this thread.

Don

 

[panzerman]

If I have a bullish or bearish bias on a stock, should I still try to collar the opening and then exit quickly, or can I try to initaite a position and ride the momentum from the previous day?

For example: if I'm bullish and think more buy than sell orders will come in overnight, should I still try to initiate a long position say 0.5% lower than the close (knowing that I may only get filled a small percent of the time), or just try to initiate a short on open and hopefully scalp a few points?

Very seldom do I not have a short term bullish or bearish bias going into the opening. It seems like the collar opening strategy would usually put me on the wrong side of the momentum if I want to try for more than just a quick scalp.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from panzerman:

If I have a bullish or bearish bias on a stock, should I still try to collar the opening and then exit quickly, or can I try to initaite a position and ride the momentum from the previous day?

For example: if I'm bullish and think more buy than sell orders will come in overnight, should I still try to initiate a long position say 0.5% lower than the close (knowing that I may only get filled a small percent of the time), or just try to initiate a short on open and hopefully scalp a few points?

Very seldom do I not have a short term bullish or bearish bias going into the opening. It seems like the collar opening strategy would usually put me on the wrong side of the momentum if I want to try for more than just a quick scalp.

Avoid any bias since we're "fading" the market most of the time. I insist my guys put in both buys and sells, even though there is little chance of one side being filled. Gotta get past the "gee, it's indicated up, so I want to be long" gawdawful thought process that kills traders so often. Have an understanding that the guy in NY is on the same side of the trade as you, and go with him. Take the slingshot for some $$ and then ride the rest based on tapereading and overall market conditions.

Don

 

[panzerman]

Don,

I'm intrigued by your opening collar strategy. However from a purely subjective viewpoint, it seems that more than 50% of the time, up days have higher openings and down days have lower openings. I'm just concerned that trying to take the other side of the momentum will put me on the wrong side too often. I'm concerned about getting stopped out too often and being nickel and dimed to death.

I could always widen the collar, but no matter how wide it is, that doesn't negate the observation that the majority of up days have up openings (and vice versa.)

Have you ever tried to collar the FV with stop (or stop limit) orders and catch the momentum in a given direction? Thanks.

 

[shortie]

Quote from Don Bright:

....

There is more to the strategy, and people generally add some nuances of their own, but I figure it should be worth $50K-$100K per year for an experienced trader.

Hope this helps,

Don

how much capital is needed to make 50K/yr with this strategy? what sort of drawdown is expected based on historical data?

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from panzerman:

Don,

I'm intrigued by your opening collar strategy. However from a purely subjective viewpoint, it seems that more than 50% of the time, up days have higher openings and down days have lower openings. I'm just concerned that trying to take the other side of the momentum will put me on the wrong side too often. I'm concerned about getting stopped out too often and being nickel and dimed to death.

I could always widen the collar, but no matter how wide it is, that doesn't negate the observation that the majority of up days have up openings (and vice versa.)

Have you ever tried to collar the FV with stop (or stop limit) orders and catch the momentum in a given direction? Thanks.

Don't lose sight of the basic premise...we are on the "same side as the Specialist" (who has been making money doing this for decades/centuries). We have traders who do nothing but this and make mid 6 figures and more at times.

We have various adaptations of the strategy, from simply 10-20 stocks manual, to hundreds of stocks seperated by beta and sector, fully automated with trailing stops....as in any business, some work harder than others.

Regarding the capital needed to do this to make some fair money. All of our tradfers with $20k or so can use a couple of $million to make as much as they possibly can.

Re

 

[nxsux]

i've been following these threads for a while and i'm gonna start tweaking my opening orders....

So for today (correct me if i'm wrong...

I'm using Spot price at 1509.10 and adding a FV of 3.80 (not getting hung up on the CNBC # of .58) = 1512.90. The futures are trading at 1509.25. Am i right to think the market will open down about .0024%? Feels like i'm off a little and the market looks to gap down a little more.

thanks...

Quote from Don Bright:

1. You don't "know" - and you don't really care, that is why you put in buys and sells (shorts) on each stock at your predetermined prices. Only if the stock "gaps" do you get filled, the other orders are automatically cancelled.

2. Spot price (spx) was about 1426.84, I add today's FV of 10.56 equalling 1437.40, the futures were trading at about 1434, meaning the overall market would open down about .0024%. I adjust closing prices down by that percentage, and then place buys a bit lower, and sells a bit higher (varies depending on several factors like beta, sector, etc.). My orders were 2,000 shares to buy at 45.89 and 1,000 at 45.38 (only filled on the first 2000). My short sells were 46.34 and 46.53.

Now a bit of a warning to retail traders. Most brokers won't allow you to place buys and sells on the same stock at the same time, and some won't allow opening only orders at all. This strategy is very capital intensive, but low risk, medium to high reward, especially for time spent.

Don't go "willy-nilly' into this without proper homework and hopefully good spreadsheets.

All the best,

Don

 

[murray t turtle]

Quote from jimclark:

I wonder how people adjust their trades if market is expected to open HIGHER or if market is expected to open "FLAT" or "LOWER"

The night before I do my research and create a list to trade but don't see to find a way to integrate it with market "Open" situation.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

==================
Jim Clark;
Some what like an auto dealer[oversimplification], they usually lower prices in SEPT, so may buy a model i have much researched.

And good time to sell [eventually] when dealer jumps up the price on new models. Also alert for situations , like a while back, they were jumping up oil stocks on actual take overs;
let profits ride, no hurray to sell then.