How does anyone do this?

TGregg · Feb 22, 2003

Quote from gnome:

I took a Mensa test years ago. Got 26/25... couldn't get one and got 2 extra points for finishing before the time limit.

They said "Welcome, Brother", but I never joined. Collectively, they were too weird. Much rather hang out at the tennis court and drink beer.

That 25 question test sounds like the sample or practice test, rather than the standardized tests Mensa now uses (and have always used, AFAIK). Though Mensa does allow certain previous evidence to qualify new members for admission. For instance, my ACT was allowed (but I missed by one stinkin point!). At my testing session, I had to pay for the two standardized tests, and squeaked in right at the 98% level (one test said an IQ of 138 and the other 142). The neat thing about Mensa is you only have to be smart once.

Mensa is composed of practically independent geographically determined chapters. I joined SouthEast Michigan Mensa and we drank a great deal of beer - SEMM is a very good chapter. Then I moved to NC (USA), I dropped out of Mensa - the chapter here is very different than SEMM.

This post turned out to ramble more than I intended, but I did want to say that different chapters will be different. Just because nobody in one chapter gets drunk, doesn't mean anybody in the chapter by you is sober.

bubba7 · Feb 22, 2003

for investing you need to use a reweighted Myers Briggs test to get a cut off value for who is worth training for investing to make real money .

Now back to the real subject. How to take clueless through the necessary transition.

He has proven his approach with him attached to it is statistically insignificant. so where he is is simply. He is an active observer of markets that make money for many many people.

Most people I see go through ramping up to make money can do it in such a way that takes about three years to be able to quit working.

What this means is that they continue to do two thinks: support their life stlye and continue to grow wealth.

Clueless has worked using scalping and intraday type stuff that just goes allong making money on temporary imbalances. This is just perfect for some types of people. Say average of below average IQ's. The fringe element you see a lot of in prop settings. This is like going to plumbing school and learning to fix and install pipes. They did pipes in Rome it turns out.

Clueless can start by looking at markets.

He needs to kno how they operate. Go to my post on that this am under: A really simple, difficult question. Print it and draw the picture and put an x where you stand to look at it. If you are dumb you will notice two things: you didn't print it and you didn't draw a picture much less find out where you stand. The where you stand question is important and anyone with an IQ of over 105 can figure that out.

Now look at trends. Answer the question: What percentage of trends can you use to make money? Dumb people think all the time. some people do not know what the best trend is for making money even.

When you find out these things properly you are at about a fifth grade learning level.

Clueless needs to learn first and foremost when not to be trading. No one is allowed to trade when they do not know what is going on. If you are doubling your money in less than eight months you can trade all the time.

Some people do not get to the place where they stop loosing money. these people need to learn how to exit each and every trade they enter and not loose money doing it.

cCueless needs to learn to watch the market in such a way that he can see if it is in a trend that makes money or not as a first effort.

You do this by learning to slide a ruler from right to left. what do you find out when you draw a line that touches two points on the price curve. Smart high IQ people will miss this.

This post should bring out the Buls**ters here in force. They will be good examples for me to deal with.

iceman1 · Feb 22, 2003

"for investing you need to use a reweighted Myers Briggs test to get a cut off value for who is worth training for investing to make real money"

Huh???!

bubba7 · Feb 22, 2003

Quote from iceman1:

"for investing you need to use a reweighted Myers Briggs test to get a cut off value for who is worth training for investing to make real money"

Huh???!

You're sort of out of luck I guess. No one where you say you work would have a clue it looks like.

Check in at an employment center and they can get you oriented.

Ron In-a-sauna · Feb 22, 2003

Quote from Clueless:

Short synopsis:

2 years of part-time trading:
Month 1 made 250% (luck)
Year 1 lost 60%
Year 2 lost $700 (slow grind)

Year 3:
Prop trading fulltime for over 1 year
Made $400 last year
Lost $400 so far in 2003
Lowest equity drawdown -$3000
Largest equity drawup +$3000
I trade 200-1000 shares
Was scalping NYSE for 10 months, have changed style to candlestick reversals and trend following NYSE
Since changing styles, my account's volatility has increased, but the result is still net $0.

Random qualifications (for lack of a better word):
IQ around 140
Personality type: INTP (weak on the P)
I understand expectancy and position sizing: finished Van Tharp's game with over 5 mil on first try
NLP, therapy, thousands of hours of introspection... introspection on the act of introspection

I've spent literally thousands of hours coding ideas into Tradestation, looking for something with positive expectancy. I have not found anything that holds up under scrutiny.

I've spent thousands of hours reading the tape, following the trend, following the futures, watching the specialist, etc, etc. It's possible to be right about market direction, but I'm stopped out too often to take advantage. Moving stops tighter results in more stopouts, looser and the risk is too great for reward. The better I get, the better the market gets.

I don't get it. I give up. How does anyone do this? What do they know/do differently? It's incredibly frustrating to sacrifice everything to follow this dream, to work as hard and try as hard as possible... I've focused 100% of my life on this and yet I still fail. I've never failed at anything in my life. It's a first and I truly have no idea why.

just a couple observations
1) it seems lie your all over the place and doing everything from tech analysis to tape and specialists reading. although you can be profitable form any one, a lot of these styles dont mix very well, i.e if you are reading the specialist and using stops, thats ridiculous. ask yourself what stlye/strategy has made me the most money or worked best, if one stands out focus on just that. if one doesnt stand out, keep searching until one does but dont mix styles...

2) why are you writing code? sounds like you are wasting a lot of time here. if you cant make money on an idea once, what makes you think automating it to do it 1000x will work? wait til you find something profitable then worry about writing code...in any event i think your tiem could be better spent

beantrader · Feb 22, 2003

Time to empty the garbage out,the garbage in your head.Whats your goal? TO MAKE MONEY!
Keep it simple and go with the trend until you have more experience.After you get more experience and try other ways to trade you'll realize that going with the trend works and trading becomes boring but profitable.
Trade in sync with the weekly trend on the daily charts,its like stealing,all you need is money and lots of patience.Good luck.

LongShot · Feb 22, 2003

Superior being, when of late they saw
A mortal man unfold all Nature's law,
Admir'd such wisdom in an earthly shape,
And shew'd a NEWTON as we shew an Ape.

I Missed Boat · Feb 22, 2003

Quote from Clueless:

Short synopsis:

2 years of part-time trading:
Month 1 made 250% (luck)
Year 1 lost 60%
Year 2 lost $700 (slow grind)

Year 3:
Prop trading fulltime for over 1 year
Made $400 last year
Lost $400 so far in 2003
Lowest equity drawdown -$3000
Largest equity drawup +$3000
I trade 200-1000 shares
Was scalping NYSE for 10 months, have changed style to candlestick reversals and trend following NYSE
Since changing styles, my account's volatility has increased, but the result is still net $0.

Random qualifications (for lack of a better word):
IQ around 140
Personality type: INTP (weak on the P)
I understand expectancy and position sizing: finished Van Tharp's game with over 5 mil on first try
NLP, therapy, thousands of hours of introspection... introspection on the act of introspection

I've spent literally thousands of hours coding ideas into Tradestation, looking for something with positive expectancy. I have not found anything that holds up under scrutiny.

I've spent thousands of hours reading the tape, following the trend, following the futures, watching the specialist, etc, etc. It's possible to be right about market direction, but I'm stopped out too often to take advantage. Moving stops tighter results in more stopouts, looser and the risk is too great for reward. The better I get, the better the market gets.

I don't get it. I give up. How does anyone do this? What do they know/do differently? It's incredibly frustrating to sacrifice everything to follow this dream, to work as hard and try as hard as possible... I've focused 100% of my life on this and yet I still fail. I've never failed at anything in my life. It's a first and I truly have no idea why.

Seems like so many have put in this much time and effort in the biz (as daytraders or as floor brokers/brokers and then daytraders) or more and come up empty. And worst of all, the market is worse and to some extent will probalby always be worse than it used to be.

LongShot · Feb 22, 2003

Quote from I Missed Boat:

Seems like so many have put in this much time and effort in the biz (as daytraders or as floor brokers/brokers and then daytraders) or more and come up empty. And worst of all, the market is worse and to some extent will probalby always be worse than it used to be.

thanks for the "insight" but so what? that's called l-i-f-e. no free lunches. no guarantees. whiners never win and winners never whine. everything just IS. and IS is just that ... IS. nothing more nothing less. IS

I Missed Boat · Feb 22, 2003

Quote from FRuiTY PeBBLe:

I'm not disagreeing, I actually do kind of agree. But why would it be the more smart you are, the longer it takes? Why?

F. P.

Was the options trader example to suggest that smarter people take longer or, as I'd taken it, was it intended to reflect that no matter how smart you are, success usually takes time?