How do you rank as a trader?

[comagnum]

How do you rank as a trader?

Its been like a country song - first I got to much $ to fast. Than I got some very expensive addictions - than I went to the poor house and started all over. When your good days used to be into the 5 digits and now your living on $350 per week in a crappy job while owing the IRS a small fortune it seems hopeless. My tax guy assured me I would bounce back if I revisited my trading plan & remove that part about blowing up when your already made enough to coast on fixed income. I replaced all bad addictions with healthy ones - broke past my previous all time high about 10 years ago and still hitting new highs (accounts that is), with manageable draw downs here & there and became a black belt on risk management.

Trading has allowed me to live where I want, do what and when I want - but it has not always been easy. Unconditional persistence to the point of almost insanity has paid off.

 

[southall]

I'm trying to figure out what would be the top 10percentile of traders?

Are these the guys doing 80% + return on capital per year?

First you would probably want to split this question into ranges.

1K account
10K account
100K account
1M account
10M
100M
1B
10B
100B
1T

Then think about the % returns that the best traders could make on each account size without high risk of ruin.

Its like when Buffet said he could easily make 50% per year on 1million .

Also leverage effects returns as well, i use IB so my max returns get limited by how much margin they give me. If i switched to a Broker with $500 intraday margin per ES then that could triple my returns (but also triple my drawdowns).

 

[Palindrome]

Great point Southall, I would say most of the participants on this forum have less than a 5 million dollar account. I could be wrong.

 

[motif]

Apologies if there are similar threads out there.

I'm trying to figure out what would be the top 10percentile of traders?

Are these the guys doing 80% + return on capital per year?

Is 120% per year top 2% of traders?

Curious on what everyones thoughts are here. I would imagine some people just look to make X $'s per year, but I'm curious what peoples thoughts are from a percentage return.

E-mail Jack Scwager. Not kidding.

 

[algofy]

Great point Southall, I would say most of the participants on this forum have less than a 5 million dollar account. I could be wrong.

Lol, I would say less than 1% around here have an account over 1 mil. If that.

 

[nonlinear5]

E-mail Jack Scwager. Not kidding.

Jack Schwager would of course say that percent return is a poor measure of a trader's performance, and he would be absolutely right. Jack likes to use his so-called gain-to-pain ratio, which as the name implies, takes both risks and returns into consideration.

Consider two traders, Joe and Jim. Both make a 40% annual return, on average. By that measure (as defined by the OP), they would be ranked the same. However, Joe regularly experiences 75% drawdowns, is an emotional wreck, and has mini heart attacks when he is losing. Jim, on the other hand, has 10% drawdowns, sleeps well, and is a happy person. Clearly then, Jim is a better trader.

 

[wrbtrader]

Apologies if there are similar threads out there.

I'm trying to figure out what would be the top 10percentile of traders?

Are these the guys doing 80% + return on capital per year?

Is 120% per year top 2% of traders?

Curious on what everyones thoughts are here. I would imagine some people just look to make X $'s per year, but I'm curious what peoples thoughts are from a percentage return.

It doesn't matter if you want to compare yourself to professional traders working for financial institutions or retail traders that are trading their own capital or prop firm traders.

I wouldn't be concerned about how large the penis is of the other guy that's taking a piss next to you in the public bathroom.

 

[helpme_please]

Apologies if there are similar threads out there.

I'm trying to figure out what would be the top 10percentile of traders?

Are these the guys doing 80% + return on capital per year?

Is 120% per year top 2% of traders?

Curious on what everyones thoughts are here. I would imagine some people just look to make X $'s per year, but I'm curious what peoples thoughts are from a percentage return.

If someone makes >80% return on capital per year, it certainly makes them the top 10%. My experience is that when someone is harping on this wonderful result, he is going to sell me his trading course which will make me rich like him. (Truth is, it is going to make him richer than me for sure and most likely at my expense) If he has this sort of wonderful results and yet keen to sell his secrets, he probably earns more from teaching than trading. Even if the amazing returns are true, it is probably a one-off affair. Why would someone with consistent >80% performance want to sell his secrets?

Be careful!

 

[zdreg]

Your opinion shows you have a lot more work and thinking to be done...maybe learning how to use a calculator and perhaps a basic course in maths.

I would much rather have a conversation about trading with a trader who makes 40% per year but finishes every trading day profitable than a trader making 120% per year with all sorts of wild equity swings over the course of a year. Just my opinion.

both of you need lessons in risk management and draw downs.

 

[Handle123]

HUH, maybe am thinking wrong, but all I do is think in terms of percentages, first is drawdown, second is risk management, third is maxs-meaning at what percentage is safe margin I can put on amount(shares, pieces, contracts) and still be able to get out and not cause my own slippage.

Most will disagree, but there is limits in volume on scalping/day trading safely, those that know or traded might offer when having a bad day, it will generally be far worse than great day of profits. So what is more important to that trader profits or drawdown? For me it is drawdown, smoother the equity curve, better sleeping at night and brighter future. Being consistent is more important to me than wild profits even if it means lower profits for the year, they never last and often times many who were scoring large end up with no accounts as they never learned to trade.

Last time I saw numbers like 0.4 to 4%-ish breakeven to half million and 0.3% are over half million are making blunt of the money. Would you have it any other way? To get above 0.3%, you have to be willing to work and drive your senses beyond the norms, it is all you think about and it is all about playing the best you can in the game. And most are professionals who are managers.