How do you prepare for the trading day?

caplan8293 · Apr 22, 2004

Quote from axeman:

Thats easy.

Crawl out of bed 10 mins before the open.
Double check the systems.
Run my trading system.

Go back to bed.

Wake up...eat breakfast, shower.

Check to see how much i've made so far

Ain't auto trading great?

peace

axeman

I wish it were that simple... What software do you use to do your auto-trading?

Mecro · Apr 22, 2004

Quote from wackojacko:

I'll do you one better- on a few occasions, I have fucked Maria before the open......sometimes, we let our dogs and monkeys watch!!
Its great because instead of moaning, she tells me inside information before the bell. Easy money!!!!

Hahahaha,

I did not know Maria had the brains to even realize what inside info is. Without the teleprompter, she barely knows what information is.

axeman · Apr 22, 2004

My own. Wrote it from scratch.

peace

axeman

Quote from caplan8293:

I wish it were that simple... What software do you use to do your auto-trading?

capitalMan · Apr 23, 2004

Quote from NihabaAshi:

Hi WannabeTrader27,

You've been trading for two years and haven't figure out where your main work load is at?

Between the the morning and the time the market Opens...how much time each morning (average) are you studying, researching, preparing for the market?

Also, between the market Close and bedtime...how much time each night (average) are you studying, researching the market?

Actually, there's been numerous threads here at ET about market preparation we traders do...along with how traders get away from the market (vacations, relaxation et cetera).

As for my preparation before the Open...

I eat breakfast (very small meal), 30-45mins playing with my son, 30mins worth of stretching (mainly used to think about a few trading strategies that I had reviewed the prior evening), print out my journal templates, chat online and I'm usually ready to go by 0815am est.

If there's no key economic reports at 0830am est...I sleep in an extra hour and do the same above.

After the close...I'm usually done with everything by 5pm est...computer stays on all evening in the office and I can quickly pop into the home office to post a few messages online at forums like ET.

The key to the trading day in my opinion is not the work load...its how we relax from the work load.

I get away from the markets during the trading day for a minimum of 1 1/2 hours for lunch and/or listening to music...sometimes I'll push it to 2 hours.

On the weekends...I think I spend about 30mins researching and about 1 hour of chatting online to other traders (that includes posting online messages).

Thus, the key for me in my trading is to have endurance. Therefore, the work load should be normal like any other business owner (trading is a business) that's been trading for a few years or more like you.

After that...it basically becomes a 8am to 5pm job.

However, in the beginning for new traders...it may be like a 8am to 10pm job.

I know one newbie trader here at ET that told me he's up at 6am est studying the markets and going to be at midnight...

He's also a scalper putting on 50 trades per day on average.

I hope he doesn't burn himself out before his next birthday.

Eventhough you gave NO DETAILS about what you do...

If your just looking to get better at what you do...

Try enriching other areas of your personal life and treat the market like a normal job as much as possible in comparison to your prior jobs.

It's just a job.

NihabaAshi

although it sounds like a great lifestyle, (relax during trading hours??), but frankly, you are never going to get rich with that sort of mentality. so I would suggest most people ignore this post as it l's going to cost you a lot of money(IMHO)

You are competing against the most smart, most determined, toughest, sons of bitches in the world, people who have never fail at anything in their life and all u want to do is relax and take it easy, and do 30min researches, chat all the time???

I am sorry if I sound harsh, but that's sort of mentality is not going to help anybody at all.

the exact kind of mentality that makes 95% of the ppl loses in the business. it might work for you because you a genius, but for lesser mortals, it's simply not good advice.

and yes, it's a job, but I bet you can't SUCCED with that sort of attitude IN ANY JOB..

axeman · Apr 23, 2004

vegasoul,

Good post. I posted the way I prepare for the morning,
more as a contrast to typical traders.

Because as a 100% mechanical system trader, all the work
is done UP FRONT.

The part I left out is the COUNTLESS hours I put into
researching and modelling new systems every night
for years.

"The victorious army wins first and then seeks battle..." Sun Tzu
describes my method of trading best.

Which is why actual morning preparation is the trivial part.

peace

axeman

Mecro · Apr 23, 2004

Quote from vegasoul:

although it sounds like a great lifestyle, (relax during trading hours??), but frankly, you are never going to get rich with that sort of mentality. so I would suggest most people ignore this post as it l's going to cost you a lot of money(IMHO)

You are competing against the most smart, most determined, toughest, sons of bitches in the world, people who have never fail at anything in their life and all u want to do is relax and take it easy, and do 30min researches, chat all the time???

I am sorry if I sound harsh, but that's sort of mentality is not going to help anybody at all.

the exact kind of mentality that makes 95% of the ppl loses in the business. it might work for you because you a genius, but for lesser mortals, it's simply not good advice.

and yes, it's a job, but I bet you can't SUCCED with that sort of attitude IN ANY JOB..

Hard work is generic nowdays. Work smart not hard, thats the way of the winner.

For the most part, we are competing against manipulators and rulebreaks that are above the law. After that we are competing against each other. It's not hard work that makes big dollars in the markets, it's contacts, luck, proper trading positions, inside info, power above the law (specialists/MMs) & manipulation.

Do whatever works for you and yes outside research, planning, projections are almost a must. But to be up at 6am and stay till 7pm, man that sucks. That kills just about all and any fun of trading. Why even trade then? Might as well be a corporate slave then.

Some of the best traders do nothing more than come in at 9:30 and leave at 4pm. They just have the talent to scalp that well.

axeman · Apr 23, 2004

Mecro,

I would not be comfortable scalping for a living.
It doesnt scale to well, and grinding out a living scalping
does not interest me. Pretty boring too. Gave it up long ago.

I dont want just a paycheck, I want wealth that compounds
and scales like all hell

Its only like slaving over a regular job if you hate it.
But if you love it...its actually fun.

Solving market puzzles is incredibly difficult.
But I just keep getting better.

One day...even this will bore me. But by then, ill be
worth millions....so who cares

2 auto systems online, and 1 more in the queue to go live soon.
2 others in development that are looking good.
Ill have more systems than ill know what to do with soon.
Thats a good feeling.

peace

axeman

Grob109 · Apr 23, 2004

WannabeTrader27:

Thanks for responding to the requests of others regarding your personal picture.

The picture you provide is one of transition and I hope it continues. You definitely are not in a good place.

You are wedged between two large terrific opportunities. Now at the place you consider, any efforts you make will not be very rewarding.

Your knowledge and skills would be better used by splitting your time between trading during the day in leveraged markets and, also, position trading the entities of which you have some knowledge.

The major consideration on the table for you is to move away from operating on the basis of "betting" and moving to mechanical or rule based trading. For you, "discretion" is really not there and what stands in its place is actually taking big chances and hoping.

Your focus on preparation is commendable. Were you to make a list of the many sectors of making money and rank them by their respective "preparation" requirement, you will find pre market preparation is not at the top of the list.

I am very opinionated on pre market preparation. It is a must.
Equally important is post market âworkâ. It is a must.

There has been no excellent advice nor any quality suggestions given to you so far in this thread. Vegasoul points this out with particular skill vis a vis NihabaAshi.

You can use the following example of "preparation" for all markets. I will reference to ES.

1. ZOOM into the upcoming day by doing the following.
a. Note the LT trend of the quarter. Know it's spread and slope and where the current traverse (IT trend) is.
b. Note the IT trend which is traversing a. Note it's volatility, current S and R, its pace, and the gaps and their direction for the duration of the IT.
c. Note that you are meeting your daily goal and what itâs relation is to the last 5 daily H/Lâs. Update your equity curve and review the three things you are succeeding it doing that is steepening it.
d. Note Well, the period between the last close and the present open coming up. At the least draw the H/L of overnight trading so you know why and where the potential opening gap is coming from.

2. Review you previous dayâs effort.
a. highline your debriefing notes in the morning after you have done 1. above. Note what you did BEST and note your personal general recommendations to yourself vis a vis preventable mistakes. Do not deal with mistakes you made that you were unaware of at the time of the mistake (just be proactive and work within your real skills).
b. Use a formal assessment sheet to characterize the dayâs anticipated action. Include: gap that is going to start day, the carry over trend and traverse that is worth checking out at the beginning of the day. The potential H/L range based on the spread of the IT trend you are in. The potential S and R. The volatility in lateral trends (See prior middays and laterals on the last S or R). Pending end of IT Trend if possible. Note the volume required to currently maintain a fast pace, the four daily trends and the volume that ends all formations prior BOâs, Same for the minimum volume required to prevent an FBO. Note the average number of ticks for the four trend channel traverses in the direction of the trend, and the volatility of counter trend traverses (in terms of ticks).

3. Get ready to trade.
a. Set up screens (4)
b. Get logs and trading sheets labeled.
c. Get ample water
d. Determine your scaling approach for the market. Be sure to add this to the first trades preset on the TWS or equiv.
e. Decide whether your current confidence-level allows you to link trades for the day. Do not change this decision during the day.
f. Decide what the maximum sideling volume is that you will be using for midday.

After the market closes, for ES, you have a lot to do.

1. Debrief using High liters on logs and trading records and print and chart prints to rough out areas of focus.
2. Complete journal for all highliter items.
3. Note in journal with highliter which items will be used for tomorrow.
4. Review the pre-market data you put on form for accuracy regarding your estimates.
5. Note key successes. Highlite for tomorrow morning.
6. For any personal mistakes, note the remedy you plan to use. Highlite for tomorrow am.
7. For any losses as a result of not anticipating market, note where you can review published information if it is now known to you. Use your âresearchâ highliter to mark this in the âresearchâ color.

Obviously this stuff is spoon feeding and just run on copy. There are many such âpreparationâ lists like this. You can read the other thread comments here and see how people conduct themselves. Naturally, a person gets out of what he does what he puts into it in direct proportion. The markets are unlimited in providing capital to you.

Trading des not turn out to be "hard work" as you have heard or read. All you do is sit there and monitor profits accumulating all day long. The market âtelegraphsâ what is going on and what is coming up. Your job, at this state of computer technology, is to share the work with the market. Most of all, do not usurp the marketâs jobs. The market âgivesâ you all the info you need to push the buttons you have set up in advance. If you act, then all you must do is confirm that your action is correct. If not, then âfixâ your mistake and go back to âworkâ.

At this point, what you have stated as your current focus, is a very poor place to make money. It is good that you are moving away from what you did, but you should keep moving to better more rewarding places for your current skill and knowledge levels.

Cheese · Apr 23, 2004

"Work smart not hard." Mecro

Correct.

Work smarter, not harder. However if you are not working smart enough yet, work harder to get to that smart stage. It took me over a year to put together a system that meets my requirements. Now that was most of my waking hours 7 days a week. Even then the truth was that this was more a compelling problem solving quest than hard work.

And detailed instructions on operational procedure won't help until you start at the right place. That place is the market that 'grows the Biggest Fruit' .. one that is a cornucopia offering endless sh*tloads of money.

That is a zero sum market of wide price gyration (ie index futures and in my case that is the DOW). Choose your market; do your research; set up your model; token trade to verify.

Trade for real intra-day and start accumulating. You are now following the yellow brick road .. and are on your way.

capitalMan · Apr 24, 2004

Quote from Mecro:

Hard work is generic nowdays. Work smart not hard, thats the way of the winner.

For the most part, we are competing against manipulators and rulebreaks that are above the law. After that we are competing against each other. It's not hard work that makes big dollars in the markets, it's contacts, luck, proper trading positions, inside info, power above the law (specialists/MMs) & manipulation.

Do whatever works for you and yes outside research, planning, projections are almost a must. But to be up at 6am and stay till 7pm, man that sucks. That kills just about all and any fun of trading. Why even trade then? Might as well be a corporate slave then.

Some of the best traders do nothing more than come in at 9:30 and leave at 4pm. They just have the talent to scalp that well.

nobody is saying that you HAVE TO spent 14 hours doing research, figuring out the market( well..that's what I do though), it's the mentality/psychology that counts.

It's about Dedication and commitment, you don't commit yourself as a coporate slave, and you don't dedicate yourself to your endaevor and make it the central purpose of your life, but I would bet that for anybody to achieve any results in trading, he has to dedecate himself to trading, the market simply isn't there to hand out money.

so it's all about the mindset, not the acutal work itself. It has nothing to do with working smart, because it's not the work that matters, work doesn't require too much thinking, just execution. It's the thought process that counts.

I KNOW I can't do 30minute research per day or chat with other traders and trade for a living. I KNOW most people can't, so I am discourage this sort of behavior. If it works for NIshbashi or you, Merco, good for you, I just wish I am as talented as you are.