How do you measure Pace of action if you use Constant Volume Bars?
- Thread starter aeliodon
- Start date
Quote from jack hershey:
LOL
This is just another signal generator that can be used for several styles of trading as an ATS.
Obviously the coding up all three is what leads to the suppression coding that is so essential to eliminate spurous signals in most coding efforts. It is probably true that most coding does not have suppression and as a consequence has drawdowns as part of the ATS.
The range of daily profits for these three goes from 3x to 6x the ATR once you have clean signals only getting through the suppression circuits.
Pace turns out to be one of the best ways to gate appropriate ATS signals into the trading decision tree.
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Jack
would be very helpful for me to know what you mean by :
OP and which indicator do you mean (previous post) and ATS signals.
Thanks
Ch.
I probably can't understand your question.
The parts I see are:
1. OP means original poster and original post. this person and his mind status for first recourses for trading are not going to make him successful as a trader. If you apply about 100 questions under six topis to his posting record it becomes apparent his first recourse is not aligned to making money scalping, trading trends nor trading traverses.
2. Which indicator do you mean? I posted about a "market pace indicator" as applied as a first derivative of time in a CVB setting. Since bars are all identical in terms of volume, the rate of change of bar appearance translates into an indicator that "characterizes" MARKET PACE.
A rough indicator for retail traders for making 3 to 6 times the ATR daily is MARKET PACE SHIFTS. This makes the signal: market pace shifts.
Because people ordinarily, for their reasons, decide to only take so much of the daily offer, the "shift" nature of the signal can be either deceptive or misleading. To eliminate being deceptive or misleading, a fix has to be put inplace. I used three mutually exclusive eamples: scalping, traverse traing and trend trading. each has a set of exclusive and sparate signals. If a person trades one, he must "suppress" trading the other two.
The suppression must be done and by doing it the misleading and deception is removed. Obviously the easy way to do this is with an ATS that has automated trades and the filters that prevent mistaken signals that are being generated by the "universal indicator" that serves scalping. traverse trading and trend trading.
The OP messes up seeing the markets and he messes up using one kind of signal and instead jumps around using a combo of inconsistent signals.
3. ATS signals. any ATS gets raw direct data from the markets. It is used to create a display. CVCB's are the forte of the display and the color rainbow for market pace becomes part of the display. A lot of displays have a form of indicator for market pace most are non stationary. I would not use a display that did not have market pace displayed and kept up to date.
An ATS has two other parts: the trading logic and the output signals to the trading platform. Any CVB system generates a means of "interpreting the market action over time". An indicator like ProfLogic's would be a common one. In Prof's case he imports the indicator from another fractal (slower one) that has a very significant smoothing effect which behaves as an terrific filter.
What I created as an indicator is designed to work in many different trading systems. It is especially helpful in PA for timed bars. PA by its very nature is a lagging approach. Taking the lag out in PA is done with the HH. A signal is generated part way through the PA pattern at just the time when what is called the "second chance" occurs. this is the last chance to pick over the top and bottom by using a "confirmation" signal that leads al other PA pattern signals by at least 33%. I injected this indicator signal into the MARKET PACE SHIFT signal indicator so it could be applied universally to all forms of ATS successful ATS's. I will go through the three signals I provided once again. Maybe this time you will find them.
1. scalping. The pace shift to time a scalp is on the PA HH formation when price retraces to the open of the second bar ("second chance"). It shows on the MARKET PACE SHIFT indicator as a dot color change. there are six colors and they are read by the ATS mathematically. when the color changes, a signal is generated to gate a trade to the platform. The trade has a direction and that comes from the rest of the ATS that simply determines the right side of the market as it changes as the trade is signalled. Long to short or short to long. this sinal happens frequently and the scalper is taking a lot of money out of the market by dong reversal trades and not entry exit trades. this i, roughly speaking, impossible for most traders to do because they are oxygen deprived and in an incoherent state most of the time. this is cheaply and esily measured by anyone who is brave enough to find out about their mental state (use microem wavepc to do this; it exceedds by several orders of magnitude anything traderzones has ever posted that he has read).
2. traverse trading. The pace shift to time a traverse trade (reversal) is on the PA HH formation when price retraces to the open of the second bar ("second chance"). It shows on the MARKET PACE SHIFT indicator as a dot color change. which occurs at the ends of the color range of the current channel color range shift. This is a coded signal that has four components: the max color from a non stationary look up; a min color from a non stationary look up; a gating function which determined the width of the look up; and a suppression crciut which eleimantes scalping signals that are NOT on either signal from the two look up tables. determining the max and min signals and adding them to the lookup table is a precursor to the four signals mentioned. These are determined from ltl's and rtl's as a consequence of price velocity over time in the context of pace.
The trading signal pops out for timing tops and bottoms of traverses when the ATS determins a color shift at the traverse end colors AND a HH is occuring for step 5 of the HH process. There is an additional issue as days unfold and it is ignored simply because it has no significance for this level of making money.
LOL
This is just another signal generator that can be used for several styles of trading as an ATS.
Obviously the coding up all three is what leads to the suppression coding that is so essential to eliminate spurous signals in most coding efforts. It is probably true that most coding does not have suppression and as a consequence has drawdowns as part of the ATS.
The range of daily profits for these three goes from 3x to 6x the ATR once you have clean signals only getting through the suppression circuits.
Pace turns out to be one of the best ways to gate appropriate ATS signals into the trading decision tree.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack
would be very helpful for me to know what you mean by :
OP and which indicator do you mean (previous post) and ATS signals.
Thanks
Ch.
I probably can't understand your question.
The parts I see are:
1. OP means original poster and original post. this person and his mind status for first recourses for trading are not going to make him successful as a trader. If you apply about 100 questions under six topis to his posting record it becomes apparent his first recourse is not aligned to making money scalping, trading trends nor trading traverses.
2. Which indicator do you mean? I posted about a "market pace indicator" as applied as a first derivative of time in a CVB setting. Since bars are all identical in terms of volume, the rate of change of bar appearance translates into an indicator that "characterizes" MARKET PACE.
A rough indicator for retail traders for making 3 to 6 times the ATR daily is MARKET PACE SHIFTS. This makes the signal: market pace shifts.
Because people ordinarily, for their reasons, decide to only take so much of the daily offer, the "shift" nature of the signal can be either deceptive or misleading. To eliminate being deceptive or misleading, a fix has to be put inplace. I used three mutually exclusive eamples: scalping, traverse traing and trend trading. each has a set of exclusive and sparate signals. If a person trades one, he must "suppress" trading the other two.
The suppression must be done and by doing it the misleading and deception is removed. Obviously the easy way to do this is with an ATS that has automated trades and the filters that prevent mistaken signals that are being generated by the "universal indicator" that serves scalping. traverse trading and trend trading.
The OP messes up seeing the markets and he messes up using one kind of signal and instead jumps around using a combo of inconsistent signals.
3. ATS signals. any ATS gets raw direct data from the markets. It is used to create a display. CVCB's are the forte of the display and the color rainbow for market pace becomes part of the display. A lot of displays have a form of indicator for market pace most are non stationary. I would not use a display that did not have market pace displayed and kept up to date.
An ATS has two other parts: the trading logic and the output signals to the trading platform. Any CVB system generates a means of "interpreting the market action over time". An indicator like ProfLogic's would be a common one. In Prof's case he imports the indicator from another fractal (slower one) that has a very significant smoothing effect which behaves as an terrific filter.
What I created as an indicator is designed to work in many different trading systems. It is especially helpful in PA for timed bars. PA by its very nature is a lagging approach. Taking the lag out in PA is done with the HH. A signal is generated part way through the PA pattern at just the time when what is called the "second chance" occurs. this is the last chance to pick over the top and bottom by using a "confirmation" signal that leads al other PA pattern signals by at least 33%. I injected this indicator signal into the MARKET PACE SHIFT signal indicator so it could be applied universally to all forms of ATS successful ATS's. I will go through the three signals I provided once again. Maybe this time you will find them.
1. scalping. The pace shift to time a scalp is on the PA HH formation when price retraces to the open of the second bar ("second chance"). It shows on the MARKET PACE SHIFT indicator as a dot color change. there are six colors and they are read by the ATS mathematically. when the color changes, a signal is generated to gate a trade to the platform. The trade has a direction and that comes from the rest of the ATS that simply determines the right side of the market as it changes as the trade is signalled. Long to short or short to long. this sinal happens frequently and the scalper is taking a lot of money out of the market by dong reversal trades and not entry exit trades. this i, roughly speaking, impossible for most traders to do because they are oxygen deprived and in an incoherent state most of the time. this is cheaply and esily measured by anyone who is brave enough to find out about their mental state (use microem wavepc to do this; it exceedds by several orders of magnitude anything traderzones has ever posted that he has read).
2. traverse trading. The pace shift to time a traverse trade (reversal) is on the PA HH formation when price retraces to the open of the second bar ("second chance"). It shows on the MARKET PACE SHIFT indicator as a dot color change. which occurs at the ends of the color range of the current channel color range shift. This is a coded signal that has four components: the max color from a non stationary look up; a min color from a non stationary look up; a gating function which determined the width of the look up; and a suppression crciut which eleimantes scalping signals that are NOT on either signal from the two look up tables. determining the max and min signals and adding them to the lookup table is a precursor to the four signals mentioned. These are determined from ltl's and rtl's as a consequence of price velocity over time in the context of pace.
The trading signal pops out for timing tops and bottoms of traverses when the ATS determins a color shift at the traverse end colors AND a HH is occuring for step 5 of the HH process. There is an additional issue as days unfold and it is ignored simply because it has no significance for this level of making money.
remainder of post.....
3. Beginner trend trading. Here all the scalping and traverse signals are ignored. It will not be evident why and again it does not matter since the beginner is only making 2 to 3 times the ATR daily. Trends end on R or S and they are away from a thing called a pivot point. If there is no trend, usually people are losing money because they do not know what the market is doing. See the failure of SPM, for example.
To ignore a signal from a set of coding, suppression is used. Thus if a trade is true for scalping or a traverse it is suppressed.
An override of the suppression become the means to generate the trend trade signal. When a specific signal supression is happening, then a test is performed to determine that the trend overlap is at hand. An AND'ing of several factors is considered: The color change of the bar as price crosses the open of the second bar of the present HH (this is why an addition tick beyond the open of bar 2 is used); the failure of the dominant traverse to continue (it is known that a dominant traverse is under way and it is known that a MARKETPACE shift is occurring on the traverse; the rainbow market pace shift away from the maximum color of the day for the first overlap (and a relative max for the remainder of the day (equalto or greater than)). Other "confirmations" could be used and they take additional time: failure to break the R or S, any three bar PA, a failure on retest of R or S, a further MARKET PACE SHIFTcolor change, a trend RTL BO, the end of the first new trend traverse, more than three scalps having been logged.
The beginner level of trading is obviously not precise manually but it is precise when an ATS is used with the above output signal.
4. Lets check out PA trading as well. PA trading is particularly weak on what are called "exit" signals. Unfortunately PA trading is much like scalping in the snese that the trader, after entry, is overwhelmed by emotions cultivated throughout his life with regard to survival. Survival dominates most traders as they continue to try to not have to quit as a consequence of continuing failure.
The simple solution for a PA trader to determine reliable exits is to spend all his time looking for entries in the opposite direction. this will not happen, ordinarily. PA doesnot take into account any market principles and as a consequence is entirely edge oriented. All edge orientations are limited because they do not take into account the market's continuing offer.
What if a PA trader simply took all the two bar HH trades? This would be a PA zigzag trading approach. In its limit is reversal trading with staying on the right side of the market in between. A PA trader cannot think this way since he is edge oriented and not continuity nor principle oriented. Why does the market continually offer continuity and not continually offer entry edges to be followed by sidelining on exits? The market is a principled entity and the principles show up in the demonstrated continuity that comes from a coherence orientation and NOT the incoherence orientation of conventional wisdom.
Volume's PACE SHIFT is a leading indicator of price and a PA trader often avoids including volume in his routine. Why? This is just an example of incoherence manifesting in another manner. What is the reason for the time the PA trader spends sidelined? Yin and Yang prevail in PA trading and sidelining while price changes (how money is made) is a convention of PA trading. Between turns the PA trader is recovering form the incoherence engendered by being in the market. the crude testing of LO at IB's of tradres showed this physical consequence of incoherence mentally. Too bad the brain oxygen levels were not used to further confirm this fight or flee incoherence.
Market pace is a volume characteristic. PA trading wipes it off the table summarily. the trade off PA traders seek is upside down as shown in the P&L forums. Unbelivable and astonishing are the watch words of traders trapped in the anxiety , fear and anger of incoherence as a measured consequence of edge trading in opposition to market principles and market continuity.
A very helpful thing for anyone breakiong into trading is an ATS which is tuned to a specific level of trading. It can help the trader get away from the major causes of learning failure. Moving from ATS to ATS is also a consideration. The quality of trading is greatly affected by how fast decisions are made. Most traders are incoherent so it takes a ton of pressure from incoming market context and signals to allow them not to be paralysed compared to the market action. Because volume leads price at times of price turns, volume represents best how an inherent condition can be trained out of a PA type trader.
The ultimate blessing that comes out of using volume pace change as an indicator is that it deductively (and NOT inductively) proves that any exit is equivalent to an entry in the opposite direction. Thusly, it also shows the extent of the market's continuing offer as the standard against which to measure the effectiveness of any trading approach.
3. Beginner trend trading. Here all the scalping and traverse signals are ignored. It will not be evident why and again it does not matter since the beginner is only making 2 to 3 times the ATR daily. Trends end on R or S and they are away from a thing called a pivot point. If there is no trend, usually people are losing money because they do not know what the market is doing. See the failure of SPM, for example.
To ignore a signal from a set of coding, suppression is used. Thus if a trade is true for scalping or a traverse it is suppressed.
An override of the suppression become the means to generate the trend trade signal. When a specific signal supression is happening, then a test is performed to determine that the trend overlap is at hand. An AND'ing of several factors is considered: The color change of the bar as price crosses the open of the second bar of the present HH (this is why an addition tick beyond the open of bar 2 is used); the failure of the dominant traverse to continue (it is known that a dominant traverse is under way and it is known that a MARKETPACE shift is occurring on the traverse; the rainbow market pace shift away from the maximum color of the day for the first overlap (and a relative max for the remainder of the day (equalto or greater than)). Other "confirmations" could be used and they take additional time: failure to break the R or S, any three bar PA, a failure on retest of R or S, a further MARKET PACE SHIFTcolor change, a trend RTL BO, the end of the first new trend traverse, more than three scalps having been logged.
The beginner level of trading is obviously not precise manually but it is precise when an ATS is used with the above output signal.
4. Lets check out PA trading as well. PA trading is particularly weak on what are called "exit" signals. Unfortunately PA trading is much like scalping in the snese that the trader, after entry, is overwhelmed by emotions cultivated throughout his life with regard to survival. Survival dominates most traders as they continue to try to not have to quit as a consequence of continuing failure.
The simple solution for a PA trader to determine reliable exits is to spend all his time looking for entries in the opposite direction. this will not happen, ordinarily. PA doesnot take into account any market principles and as a consequence is entirely edge oriented. All edge orientations are limited because they do not take into account the market's continuing offer.
What if a PA trader simply took all the two bar HH trades? This would be a PA zigzag trading approach. In its limit is reversal trading with staying on the right side of the market in between. A PA trader cannot think this way since he is edge oriented and not continuity nor principle oriented. Why does the market continually offer continuity and not continually offer entry edges to be followed by sidelining on exits? The market is a principled entity and the principles show up in the demonstrated continuity that comes from a coherence orientation and NOT the incoherence orientation of conventional wisdom.
Volume's PACE SHIFT is a leading indicator of price and a PA trader often avoids including volume in his routine. Why? This is just an example of incoherence manifesting in another manner. What is the reason for the time the PA trader spends sidelined? Yin and Yang prevail in PA trading and sidelining while price changes (how money is made) is a convention of PA trading. Between turns the PA trader is recovering form the incoherence engendered by being in the market. the crude testing of LO at IB's of tradres showed this physical consequence of incoherence mentally. Too bad the brain oxygen levels were not used to further confirm this fight or flee incoherence.
Market pace is a volume characteristic. PA trading wipes it off the table summarily. the trade off PA traders seek is upside down as shown in the P&L forums. Unbelivable and astonishing are the watch words of traders trapped in the anxiety , fear and anger of incoherence as a measured consequence of edge trading in opposition to market principles and market continuity.
A very helpful thing for anyone breakiong into trading is an ATS which is tuned to a specific level of trading. It can help the trader get away from the major causes of learning failure. Moving from ATS to ATS is also a consideration. The quality of trading is greatly affected by how fast decisions are made. Most traders are incoherent so it takes a ton of pressure from incoming market context and signals to allow them not to be paralysed compared to the market action. Because volume leads price at times of price turns, volume represents best how an inherent condition can be trained out of a PA type trader.
The ultimate blessing that comes out of using volume pace change as an indicator is that it deductively (and NOT inductively) proves that any exit is equivalent to an entry in the opposite direction. Thusly, it also shows the extent of the market's continuing offer as the standard against which to measure the effectiveness of any trading approach.
Jack why do you hand out advice like some expert when your entire track record consists of a 24% loss in a trading contest in 2002 that you didn't even have the integrity to finish?