How do you get a job as a Trader with a bank or investment firm?

What do they sell?

- cash bonds, equities, forex...: what counts for them is making the trade and seeing the flow. So an agressive trader will usually quote a mid price to an important institutional investor just to see the flow.

- complex derivative structures: that is a BIG profits area

- syndication
 
Quote from sptrading:

What do they sell?

- cash bonds, equities, forex...: what counts for them is making the trade and seeing the flow. So an agressive trader will usually quote a mid price to an important institutional investor just to see the flow.

- complex derivative structures: that is a BIG profits area

- syndication
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Does it mean they are also trading? They just provide the other side of the trades. I just want to know what is the difference between sales and traders.
 
No. Sales talk to clients and traders make prices and manage their books (some are also allowed to prop trade)

It can be very very tensed between sales and traders. Sales always want to make a deal (that's the only way they are judged: the number and importance of their deals). Traders don't always want to (traders are judged on their P/L and that's all).
 
Very interesting thread.

It is neat to see all the relationships spelled out and the mileux of the players.

I was never attracted to working in such places. I guess the limited results that are achieved is what distracts me most.

Thank you everyone for your comments.
 
Quote from Grob109:

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I was never attracted to working in such places. I guess the limited results that are achieved is what distracts me most.
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I always hear this as teh downside, but dont get it. You can make very good $ (200K+ isnt unusual) and there is very little risk.

Trading your own $$ it is easy to blow up when your system hits slump..

Plus HOW MANY people actually make it on their own???
 
Starting out at a prop house is a great way to hone your skills.
I began as the "coffee" boy and 6 years later was managing many of their offices. I learned many things there and had the chance to watch many great traders. If you want to spend the time going for your MBA and then being a coffee boy for a bit at a larger firm, make sure you are hired right out of school. I'm in my late 30's and would have have to compete with the new kids in order to get the entry level grunt jobs to work my up. Sometimes the smaller pond is a great way to become the big fish.:)
 
I would also have to disagree with Trade-Ya's suggestion about going to work for a hedge-fund. Many hedge-funds are run in an extremely "cheap" manner and working your ass off because someone is pulling a carrot on a string in front of you is not the way to go. Sure, you can learn a lot. But you aren't gonna be paid.

As a result, you are better off starting off in a training program with a top tier investment bank having been recruited with an MBA. Believe it or not, back in 1996 a graduate from the lowly UCLA business school with an MBA was able to obtain a sales/trading position with Deutsche Bank for $80,000 in salary, a $20,000 signing bonus, and a $25,000 guaranteed bonus. After the last Bear Market, I am not so sure if those kinds of figures are still availible.

So, either obtain your MBA or try my earlier suggestion about joining a trading oriented market-making firm like Susquehanna.

Many of your equity-derivative traders on the desks of Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and Deutsche Bank have come from O'Connor Associates or Susquehanna.
 
You make it sound like one should just 'sign-up' for a job at a major investment bank after getting their MBA or they should just 'sign-up' at a major firm like Susquehanna after getting their entry ticket (MBA). I would guesstimate that there are maybe around 100 or so jobs like this (true trading jobs in Sales & Trading programs or jobs out of B-School with Susquehanna, et. al.) in the entire world per year. I would say advocating that you become one of those select 100 or so is akin to saying just hit the local lottery and you'll be well on your way. Again the road less travelled is the best course of action. While some hedge funds as you say are run "cheaply", many others are not. They are run by very experienced traders who have a lot to offer. Incidentally, I know that you know that I run a hedge fund and frankly, I have turned down young hopeful traders offering to due unpaid internships with me. I personally feel that implicit in that sort of an arrangement is some obligation to provide training and or opportunity (hence the saying, nothing is truly for free). I have no need to free help. I have over 15 employees and they cover all the bases. Best, Neal.
 
Quote from zinc:

I live in Canada and am currently searching for an entry-level job as a Trader with a bank, brokerage, investment firm, etc. to start my trading career. I have completed the CSC and am almost finished the CPH (similar to the Series 7), have a University degree and am ready to get started. It's not easy getting in, however, and I'm hoping someone has a few tips and strategies that might help me break in.

I do not want to begin my career working at a Prop house.

Any advice would be a big help.

zinc
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so you want to take away a job from an American on American shores?, or you want to remain in Canada?

Would asking a Canadian, and shaping your thread title towards Canadians be more appropriate?

I know, when I went to Canada to perform a consulting contract for one of the major Database firms, the customs officers met with me in their offices and were just as blunt as those questions that I asked. So, what are your intentions?
 
Quote from trade-ya1:

You make it sound like one should just 'sign-up' for a job at a major investment bank after getting their MBA or they should just 'sign-up' at a major firm like Susquehanna after getting their entry ticket (MBA)................I would say advocating that you become one of those select 100 or so is akin to saying just hit the local lottery and you'll be well on your way.
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LOL. :D I totally agree.
 
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