How do you deal with Starting the Day out with Losses?

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

you need to understand what kind of trader you are. It sounds like you are a "bottom line" trader. In that case, my advice would be to be quick to either take profits or exit flat the first trade or two of the day. Nothing wrong with starting out with a small winner.
More...

Actually, Flashboy is more of an emotional trader whose plan isn't detailed enough to keep him on track. This isn't an attack on FB, but an observation based on his journal and his posts. The problems he's having are a consequence of insufficient planning and the consequent effects on self-confidence and discipline.

There have been some great suggestions offered here. But until FB has a plan that he can trust and that is compatible with his risk tolerance, I doubt that these suggestions are going to be of much use.
 
all this is pretty good advice

but if you notice...i think you're referring to early morning trades. first...within the first 30 min of the market, stocks will be extremely whippy. if you encounter any resistance while in a position(referring to 1st 30 min)...take profits or get out asap. be more apt to take profits in the early morning...cause you can always get back in if you're initial guess was right. but get out asap if the trade goes against you...don't hope or pray on early morning trades. after the first 30-45 min...then you'll have moves that are more true and trending...and will allow u to hold onto positions a little longer.

also i truly believe in controlling bet size. don't get into the "habit" of believing that if you throw down size you can make back your losses much quicker. WRONG!!! scale down...pick away at it with decreased size...to get CONFIDENCE back. and remember it is part of the business. if you try to throw down size you'll get in a bigger whole much quicker...through commissions and losses. you've got to eliminate the "emotion" when trading.
finally...if you find yourself getting slaughtered a majority of the time within the first 30 min....stay out of the market within that time frame...you'll notice that you won't be in the negative as much to start off the day.

hope this stuff helps. of course this is all my own opinion...and everyone has their own style.
 
Quote from mixawhat:

also i truly believe in controlling bet size. don't get into the "habit" of believing that if you throw down size you can make back your losses much quicker. WRONG!!! scale down...pick away at it with decreased size...to get CONFIDENCE back. and remember it is part of the business. if you try to throw down size you'll get in a bigger whole much quicker...through commissions and losses. you've got to eliminate the "emotion" when trading.
More...
Fully agree with this. Ditto just like I described how I did it. Controlling bet size is what I do, too when my confidence isn't up to max. No point in trying to push it too much, particularly during the doldrums. Then, once I've done 20-30 good trades again, I'll scale back up slowly and by the end of the day might be back to size and ready to take out the 2pm+ plus action and closing hour. This isn't for always, but certainly when I have a day that starts off with multiple losses. You can choose to just ignore it and soldier on full size - but I tell you, never underestimate the power of your own mind over the outcome of your trades. You better be in a good state.

And by the way I'm talking about "amplitude of mind state" here. NOT emotions!
If you trade with emotions, you're already lost, anyway. You'll be a beginner piker ready to be turned into shark food.

People on this board always tout that it's your own mind that sabotages you. That's bullshit. It's traders who are better (less emotional, more rational) than you, who try to squeeze you as far off course as they can without getting hurt, until you give in because your balls are softer than theirs. That's the reality of trading.

And if you're doing heavily arbed futures, like the ES or worse even, NQ, then add on top of that the 'arb factor', which will at times make it swing even a little wider off course because some fruity is arbing 750 cars against the spooz, although the underlying 'real direction' is still opposite.

This is why you need to get over emotion, as much as you can. Every bit of emotion is an achilles heel to attack your rationalism and will cost you money. If you are still getting excited about wins or frown about losses - you're simply not there and not ready to trade size. Period!

Scientist.
 
Quote from funky:



flash, you still worried about p/l??? you need to worry about execution, not the end result! come on, how long have you been trading for? i keep telling you this. focus on your strategy, focus on executing that strategy. get upset when you don't execute, or when you lose concentration. don't worry about whether or not the market went against your system!!!!!

until you start focusing on the right things, its gonna be a loooong haul.
More...

Hey Funky,

Thanks.. and yes I am concentrating on the wrong things..

I don't concentrate on execution and when I get down its a snowball effect cause I lose all concentration and reasoning..

It happens to me everytime I start trading again.. I do well.. then I start to have losses.. and then it just multiplies and gets worst and worst and my equity curve basically starts shooting straight down..

I've got to overcome my psychological problems and until I do I will never succeed..
 
Quote from dbphoenix:



Actually, Flashboy is more of an emotional trader whose plan isn't detailed enough to keep him on track. This isn't an attack on FB, but an observation based on his journal and his posts. The problems he's having are a consequence of insufficient planning and the consequent effects on self-confidence and discipline.

There have been some great suggestions offered here. But until FB has a plan that he can trust and that is compatible with his risk tolerance, I doubt that these suggestions are going to be of much use.
More...

Db,

I take no offense to your statement.. you've offered a lot of help, much appreciated..

You are correct about the planning issue..

But let me describe what happens to me.. and see if you can offer any other advice.

When I start back trading after a break.. I have a plan.. its written down.. and I stick to that plan.. this lasts for a week to 2 weeks..

I get a little cofidence going.. Then I will have a very good trade .. 3 times say larger than my normal gain.. then I start to try and capture those type moves.. I start trading more on emotions..

That results in me having a few losses.. then my mindset is to get the losses back and start trying to go for the bigger gains.. basically I lose sight of my trading plan and think I can trade not sticking strictly to my rules..

Now this obviously is a discipline problem..

I don't plan the trading day before it starts.. I probably should this.. I should set aside at least a half hour before coming to the office.. look at the market.. the trend.. supoort/resistance levels.. I need to do this.. and map out ahead of time what I need to pay attention to..

Like today.. my plan is to take trades only in direction of the 30 min. trend.. but I shorted the NQ twice.. my thinking.. its turning over.. its about to start a leg down and I want to be on board.. so I'm looking for every shorting opportunity..

I also should start reading my rules every night and morning.. put them in front of my face as I shave.. next to me in the truck while driving to work..

I have to find a way to stay disciplined and I haven't succeeded with that yet..
 
Quote from Flashboy:

I also should start reading my rules every night and morning.. put them in front of my face as I shave.. next to me in the truck while driving to work...
More...
Flashboy, you're a truck driver?

I'm still amazed at the variety of people who take up trading. Which other profession can offer such diversity of minds?

Some good ideas there regarding discipline. But the main thing is to do them, but in a way your brain accepts. If you say to yourself "Do that!" or "Don't do that!", you will never succeed, because it goes against the most basic structure of your subconcious. In fact, the opposite will happen.

If you took up a good NLP course, you could learn to counteract this and use the knowledge of how to program your brain properly to your advantage and progress potentially dozens of times faster. And time is all that matters if money is leaking out.

Scientist.
 
Quote from Scientist:

Flashboy, you're a truck driver?

I'm still amazed at the variety of people who take up trading. Which other profession can offer such diversity of minds?
More...

No.. drive a pickup truck to the office.. I'm an accountant..
 
Quote from Flashboy:

You are correct about the planning issue..

But let me describe what happens to me.. and see if you can offer any other advice.
More...

First, I strongly suggest that you read The Disciplined Trader and Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas. He addresses exactly those problems which you've detailed here and in your other posts. If you don't want to spend money on yet another trading book(s), you can get these from the library.

Until then, your discipline problems likely stem from your strategy in that if you trusted it, you would be far less likely to have these problems since you wouldn't be subjecting yourself to the losses. But if you don't trust it, you are in effect sabotaging yourself by demanding a level of control that is not only unreasonable but probably unattainable.

I don't know the details of your strategy now as opposed to what your strategy was, but it's clear that you have no "bread and butter" strategy. Rather than create a basket of strategies, pick one. Just one. Refine that strategy until it provides you with high-probability entries, reasonable targets, clear exit points. Then test it, manually, on old charts, bar by bar by bar in order to determine whether or not it really does what you thought it would do. Then forward-test it (paper-trade it) until you determine whether or not it does what it did only does it in the current market environment. Only when you trust it should you begin trading it. But only it. Nothing else. Only when you can execute that strategy flawlessly and consistently should you even think about adding another strategy to your repertoire. If you can't trade it flawlessly and consistently, and the results have given you no reason to stop trusting it, then you have other issues to deal with that have nothing to do with strategy, and creating another one wouldn't do you much good.

Therefore, rather than beat yourself up over your emotionalism and your lack of discipline, find out the cause of the problem and stop trying to treat the symptoms. Look to your strategy, your one bread-and-butter strategy, and figure out what it is about that strategy that isn't meeting your needs. Fix the strategy and you will most likely fix the emotional element.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top