How do you deal with Starting the Day out with Losses?

"Imagine, I was pretty thrilled. This is what makes you strong and believe in yourself as a trader. And self-belief and perseverance is everything that counts in what is possibly the most competitive profession in the world."

This reminds me of another quote, can't remember who: "No man soars too high as long as he soars on his own wings"
 
Quote from Scientist:

I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career.
I've lost almost 300 games.
Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed.
I've failed over and over and over again in my life.

And that is why I succeed.


- Michael Jordan
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Helps to have the refs and the commissioner in your pocket too, providing that all important confidence of knowing you will get the calls in crunch time.

Kind of like the big boys who get the news before the little guys do, or being buddies with Grasso.
 
You want to build a career trading. Never risk thy whole wad. The losses have to be manageable. IF you only make 3 trades a day....700 a year...each trade is 1/700 of the whole year! It really doesnt matter. Obviously it matter less the more trades you do......6 r/ts a day....each trade is 1/1400 on the year, etc etc.....think of it over the course of your career....build....days build weeks build months build years.

When I start making bad trade after bad trade I cut back mysize ...... after taking a break and starting fresh.
 
It depends why you are having losing trades. If you are applying your system by your rules then by definition of probability trading you do not cut back and you do not stop trading. Remember, or if you can't remember this you should know that each trade has a random outcome, however, over a series of 100 trades or some larger sample, your edge gives you a higher probability of making money in a larger sample size.

Many traders make the mistake of not following their system because of a string of losses. Profitable ways of trading all have losses, and no system will tell you when they will happen, in what order, or if they will be all in a row or spread out. Then only thing you really know is that over time your edge gives you a consistent opportunity to make money.

You must take every trade that conforms to your signal of a valid edge. If you cut back becaus you lost, and you followed the rules, you are now screwing yourself out of the inevitable winners that your last lost just brings you that much closer to.

If it is a discipline problem, then something is broken and you should fix it or you will just lose money and no strategy will fix that. If this is the problem, then your real work is just beginning, my friend.

A casino operates the same way. They must take the other side of every bet, every time. They know that they will pay out some big winners (a large loss for the casino), they will make out big on a few gamblers, and make more on average because of their edge. But they take the bet every time the opportunity presents itself. (see Mark Douglas, Trading in the Zone).

You must trade like the casino, and take every edge, every time. Given that you operate within your risk parameters. Trading is simple. If you are not operating by your rules, either you have some internal conflict, or maybe you hate your rules, and have to adjust them. If you adjust them, test them. But set up rules and follow them. Trust me, I have been on both sides of that fence, and constantly monitor myself for which kind of losses I am having too.

One other thing, sometimes you can be disciplined and just be plain tired of trading. This is a signal too. NOthing is wrong with your strategy, you are not crazy, but you are tired and need to rebalance your life. Maybe go snowboarding or take your kids or girlfriend somewhere nice with all the disciplined money you have made. This is my biggest area. Doing well then just getting a little tired of the grind, and I have learned to try to seek excitement outside of work.

Hope some of this helps.
 
Quote from Flashboy:

I've noticed a repeating pattern in my trading.

On days that I start out with a loss I tend to lose my discipline, take mediocre and/or bad trades trying to catch back the loss.. needless to say only to make the loss even bigger..

Has anyone else had this problem?

Any suggestions on how to help overcome it during the trading day??? There are so many emotions to deal with as it is.. starting out with a loss really hurts me..

When I say loss I mean anywhere in the neighborhood of $75 and over.. now remember I only shoot to make 2 pts. a day in the emini on average..

Thanks and good trading
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flash, you still worried about p/l??? you need to worry about execution, not the end result! come on, how long have you been trading for? i keep telling you this. focus on your strategy, focus on executing that strategy. get upset when you don't execute, or when you lose concentration. don't worry about whether or not the market went against your system!!!!!

until you start focusing on the right things, its gonna be a loooong haul.
 
DONT TRADE THE MONEY. I know its a hard thing to get use to....but Dont Trade the MONEY.

You should cover up ur p&L to start the process. Try not to look at your P&L until the end of the day. Then you should turn that practice into a week.

What you need to understand is that your trading a "play" and idea you have, a move you believe the market will give you" THAT IS IT. Money is the byproduct of that "move" you chose.

If you create the mindset of not trading the money, starting off losing will not upset you. You will adjust your "ideas" accordingly and continue to trade. Sometimes you might have to take a break...

How do i know this works....because i had a bad habbit as a rookie at Schonfeld, i would trade the money and not the market.
My mentor sugested i put Tape over my P&L and not look at it.


Of course....you just dont hold on to losing trades, you dont just throw trades on and became reckless.
 
Quote from Flashboy:

I've noticed a repeating pattern in my trading.

On days that I start out with a loss I tend to lose my discipline, take mediocre and/or bad trades trying to catch back the loss.. needless to say only to make the loss even bigger..

Has anyone else had this problem?

Any suggestions on how to help overcome it during the trading day??? There are so many emotions to deal with as it is.. starting out with a loss really hurts me..

When I say loss I mean anywhere in the neighborhood of $75 and over.. now remember I only shoot to make 2 pts. a day in the emini on average..

Thanks and good trading
More...
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Flash boy;
Done that also ;
but not with a written business plan .

Assume you are trading a reasonable size;
those losses are NOT threatening your business.

IF you do have a written business plan;
1 day is small part of 1 month even smaller part of 1year...

I find that comforting most money managers measure by month, measure by year, measure by multiyear;
however thay have written plan also.
:cool:
===
Got a video of an Olympic hard working champ skeet shooter, shoots high 95%- 100% ;
however said he eats the exact same thing before events.:cool:

Love learning Solomon, trading king
 
Quote from Flashboy:

Any suggestions on how to help overcome it during the trading day??? There are so many emotions to deal with as it is.. starting out with a loss really hurts me..
..
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force yourself to trade paper for the rest of the day, worst punishment I can think of.
 
Flashboy,

I think the answers to your original question illustrate three separate styles of trader.

The systems traders say don't pay any attention to it.

The process traders say don't look at the money, just do your thing.

The bottom line traders say be careful, don't let it turn into a disaster day.

All have good ideas, but you need to understand what kind of trader you are. It sounds like you are a "bottom line" trader. In that case, my advice would be to be quick to either take profits or exit flat the first trade or two of the day. Nothing wrong with starting out with a small winner.
 
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