How do I get a job at proprietary trading firm?

CME Observer said:
Let’s say I have a deck of 13 cards labeled 1-13. I pull out maybe 7 at random. Make me a market on the sum. Now give me a two way on the average. We’re gonna have a 30 minute conversation and you’re gonna need to do 4 or 5 of these exercises. Then you’ll have similar conversations with 3 or 4 other dudes and we might throw a few algorithms questions or a coding exercise in there. Finally, we’ll all go to the bar and you’ll need to demonstrate you’re a normal human being. Then we’ll talk about your future in prop trading, and more likely than not that talk will not go favorable because every STEM major at an Ivy was given a free t shirt by whatever firm you’re interviewing at. I still have a couple I wear to the gym.

That’s the sort of hoops you’ll be jumping through at Wolverine/Sig/Akuna. There are only a few of these that are big enough to actively post jobs, so don’t shoot yourself in the foot by applying until you’ve developed preternatural critical reasoning and memorized the interview tricks. To be blunt you’re probably not going to get an interview unless you have a substantial resume—this is just the reality of this game I’m afraid. It’s not easy to get in and once you’re in attrition is probably higher than similarly competitive jobs.

So to give you something constructive to go on rather than crushing your dreams: read Sinclair’s books, get a prestigious advanced degree, work in software dev or a front office role elsewhere.
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SIG also fines value is professional poker players because they have learned logic and Odds.
 
QuasWexExort said:
You don't go into prop firm as a trader for a stable regular income.
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They are not looking to teach that. Are you looking for honest answers or for people to tell you what you want To hear. You simply don’t have the background they are looking for. You can join any Prop firm where your money is first loss if you don’t have a criminal background and you are willing to take the FINRA exam. You can keep you full time job if they approve it. Don’t look for anyone to improve your trading there. They simply offer an arcade for trading where you can get access leverage using everyone’s capital with fair rates.

Personally, if you have enough capital to get 4X, I would suggest you stick with your account.
 
Ask yourself the question....If I was a hiring manager at a prop shop, who would I want to hire?

If you aren't bringing capital, a stellar track record or some rock star skill to the table, why would they waste their time. It just does not make business sense.
 
curiousv said:
So I can have stable regular income ..when I trade, it is not consistent.
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This is not how it works at all. Perhaps if you're in a market maker you'd have consistent income but these people don't look for BSBAs. They look for BSc Computer Science + either an advanced degree like MBA Finance, MSc Mathematics, or demonstration of some real talent in a mathematically complicated field that is related (Physics was the popular one years ago). Get a book on quant interview questions and work through them.

If you're looking to go to a prop desk and trade you're not going to make consistent income. You will either front your own capital and they will basically rent you a desk, or you'll trade the company's capital in some sort of split. Either way, your income won't be consistent.

curiousv said:
I think I could learn the tricks of trade from them ..while on the job. Why do you have to be so judgmental?
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No one will pay you to learn mathematics on the job at an MM. If you're trading at a prop shop you will likely be paying for the privilege of being trained. I want you to read what CME Observer said again very, very carefully:

CME Observer said:
Let’s say I have a deck of 13 cards labeled 1-13. I pull out maybe 7 at random. Make me a market on the sum. Now give me a two way on the average. We’re gonna have a 30 minute conversation and you’re gonna need to do 4 or 5 of these exercises. Then you’ll have similar conversations with 3 or 4 other dudes and we might throw a few algorithms questions or a coding exercise in there. Finally, we’ll all go to the bar and you’ll need to demonstrate you’re a normal human being. Then we’ll talk about your future in prop trading, and more likely than not that talk will not go favorable because every STEM major at an Ivy was given a free t shirt by whatever firm you’re interviewing at. I still have a couple I wear to the gym.

That’s the sort of hoops you’ll be jumping through at Wolverine/Sig/Akuna. There are only a few of these that are big enough to actively post jobs, so don’t shoot yourself in the foot by applying until you’ve developed preternatural critical reasoning and memorized the interview tricks. To be blunt you’re probably not going to get an interview unless you have a substantial resume—this is just the reality of this game I’m afraid. It’s not easy to get in and once you’re in attrition is probably higher than similarly competitive jobs.
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CME Observer here captured the industry of market making pretty succinctly. If the "counting cards" or "make me a market on your phone number" kind of questions don't have an instant response (expectancy value during market discovery, what happens if they know the first digit, etc) you will be pushed out the door. The interviews are as detailed and complex as a software engineering interview (approximate the number of windows in the city of Los Angeles, etc). Your mathematical chops will be tested and your natural inclination to discover and exploit patterns will be looked at with scrutiny. CME Observer is just trying to save you time and disappointment.
 
curiousv said:
I think I could learn the tricks of trade from them ..while on the job. Why do you have to be so judgmental?
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I am not being judgemental, just being practical giving you the reality of what's out there. You simply have the wrong idea about proprietary trading firms. These firms are not set up to teach you how to trade. You won't learn the "tricks of the trade" from them. The two types of proprietary trading firms that @Robert Morse mentioned, the first type that won't provide you the capital, you are going to be basically the same as how you are now; the only difference you will be trading with a group of people who are pretty much in the same shoes as you. The 2nd type that does provide you capital to trade with, they are looking for people who are already making consistent profit in trading either via manual trading or with automated programming. They are not there to teach you how to trade; it's the opposite. They are learning from you by making you trade for them with capital that they provide you. Put yourself in their shoes. If you run a proprietary trading firm and are giving your money to other people to trade, would you want to give your money to somebody who has daytraded and invested for 20 years and is still not making consistent profit? If no, then you would understand why those firms wouldn't be looking for people like you. If yes, then why don't you open your own proprietary trading firm and give your money away to let other people trade it for you and you can "learn the tricks of trade" from them?

You want to learn the "tricks of the trade" in trading? I will tell you the "tricks of trade": Demo/paper trade until you are making a consistent profit, then start small to live trade until you are making consistent profit live trading then gradually increase your trading size all the meanwhile work a day job to provide yourself the trading capital/backup income you need. This is how people make it.

Good luck!
 
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