Pretty sure @sle put the 30% out there for illustration purposes. I would love to see audited numbers of a retail trader trading +$ 1MM Capacity running 30 % ROI for a full market cycle.
How do I get a job at proprietary trading firm?
- Thread starter curiousv
- Start date
Pretty sure @sle put the 30% out there for illustration purposes. I would love to see audited numbers of a retail trader trading +$ 1MM Capacity running 30 % ROI for a full market cycle.
I obviously picket a higher side of random here ("realistic if not aggressive") since I wanted to show that even for a really strong return compounding your way to financial freedom takes years while as a prop trader you can be taking that amount home first year.
Well, alpha decay applies to all - private traders like yourself, HF PMs and prop traders.
Anyway, to conclude (since I am done with my nightcap). In this business it's important not to have illusions. The idea that mathematical expectation of income (and PV of net worth) is higher as a private trader is an illusion. However, being a private trader has it's advantages that a hedgie/propster does not have, like life/work balance, flexible mandate etc.
I don't think it is fair to compare working a junior trader with trading on your own at face value
For a junior trader @350k pay:
Most likely require graduating at a top uni (which is $ and time spent)
Most of the people won't even qualify
Have to work long hours
Have to trade on the firm's term (risk mgr, compliance etc)
Provide better training?
Trading on your own:
Lack of capital
You have to learn the rope yourself
You can bet the farm,your house and some more if you want
For a junior trader @350k pay:
Most likely require graduating at a top uni (which is $ and time spent)
Most of the people won't even qualify
Have to work long hours
Have to trade on the firm's term (risk mgr, compliance etc)
Provide better training?
Trading on your own:
Lack of capital
You have to learn the rope yourself
You can bet the farm,your house and some more if you want
Not for accumulated wealth or assets, that's not an illusion. Once the private trader's capital reaches a certain level, he does eventually make more money each year than a prop trader with a fixed take-home pay but he just might not be able to take it all out as income to blow it on hookers; he needs to constantly reinvest at least some portion of it back into his capital and it does take him a few years to accumulate the wealth if he started off with limited funds whereas a prop trader does start off with a higher income right away if he's hired and provided he is constantly employed, he does enjoy a constant level of income that he can take out.
Good night, @sle!
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That you prove again you cannot read. Comprehensive reading is an illusion for you.
Where do you see:"anyone should give multiple millions".
Where do you see: "billionaires"?
About your 30% ROC. You took on purpose a "reasonable ROC" as the lower the ROC the easier to proof you are right. Daytraders can have much higher ROC which would proof that becoming a "monkey" junior trader is not the best option.
I make more then 350K (which is $1,500 a day) a year as a small trader just trading his own money. And I don't need to manage "millions" to get this result. I don't even need 1 million.
So by definition what you say is real and all the rest is an illusion? That must be the biggest illusion I ever heard of, which might be your biggest desillusion.
If your opinion would reflect reality nobody would trade for himself, they would all decide to become "monkey junior traders".
I have seen many "monkey junior traders" go to London. Most of them (almost all of them) came back fairly quick without any result. Most of them went over the max loss they were allowed to take. Having a (high) university degree is no garantee at all that you will make it in trading.
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Out of curiosity, what’s your general approach to ES? Are you scalping for a point or two or looking for bigger moves like 4 points + ? Do U trade all day ?
As someone who just went through the process of breaking into this industry a little over a year ago, I had to make an account here and reply to this because OP's responses to the people posting the reality of the situation had me fuming.
A bit about my background: I graduated from a top public university with a double major in applied math and economics. I chose this academic path going into university as I knew it would be required of me at any legitimate prop firm putting up their own capital for me. Additionally, I had traded a PA for 5-6 years going all the way back to my senior year of high school and had developed a fairly stable and profitable strategy. The main take away here was that I had an identifiable and evidence backed interest in trading - not just interest in investing in the stock market. I chose to purse a proprietary firm because I sought access to a larger capital base and wanted to learn the depths of the trading industry from the institutional side.
How I actually got the job: I had zero connections or network in this industry coming out of undergrad - over the last 3-4 months of my academic career I emailed every single firm I could find that participates in the business and ended up landing ~6 1st/2nd round interviews, and moved on to further rounds with 2 out of the 6. In the end, I ended up with an offer from a market making firm in equity derivatives. The process I ultimately went through was: 1st round - phone call with a handful of members at the firm, basic fit and resume screen. 2nd round - they brought me onsite and I sat through four rounds of 2-on-1 interviews of stat/probability/brain teasers. 3rd round - they gave me a universe of products and asked me to develop a strategy with sharpe ratio/max drawdown/etc, which I came back to the office and presented to a group of traders. I wrote and presented this portion using a tech driven strategy developed in python.
I was able to break in, but I worked my a** off for it, and I kept myself directed in what I was working towards for many years throughout university. I have a feeling I was a strong exception to their normal recruiting as I reached out and found them, & the majority of my coworkers here are Wharton/CMU/various ivy grads with more of a pipeline to wall street jobs.
OP - I'm sorry but a bsba doesn't cut it for this industry anymore and I'm saying that because it's fact, not to be rude to you. If you just want to join a trading arcade, more power to you, but you need to have a well developed background in mathematics to break in to the industry at a firm that is putting up its own capital nowadays. A handful of people here have tried voicing this to you and you responded back angrily instead of accepting the truth of the matter and seeing what you could do to improve yourself for these positions. That's not to say you can't do it - but you're gonna need to develop your background a lot more than a degree in business admin. and "trading for 3-6 months" in your PA to show you're actually interested and qualified in this industry.
A bit about my background: I graduated from a top public university with a double major in applied math and economics. I chose this academic path going into university as I knew it would be required of me at any legitimate prop firm putting up their own capital for me. Additionally, I had traded a PA for 5-6 years going all the way back to my senior year of high school and had developed a fairly stable and profitable strategy. The main take away here was that I had an identifiable and evidence backed interest in trading - not just interest in investing in the stock market. I chose to purse a proprietary firm because I sought access to a larger capital base and wanted to learn the depths of the trading industry from the institutional side.
How I actually got the job: I had zero connections or network in this industry coming out of undergrad - over the last 3-4 months of my academic career I emailed every single firm I could find that participates in the business and ended up landing ~6 1st/2nd round interviews, and moved on to further rounds with 2 out of the 6. In the end, I ended up with an offer from a market making firm in equity derivatives. The process I ultimately went through was: 1st round - phone call with a handful of members at the firm, basic fit and resume screen. 2nd round - they brought me onsite and I sat through four rounds of 2-on-1 interviews of stat/probability/brain teasers. 3rd round - they gave me a universe of products and asked me to develop a strategy with sharpe ratio/max drawdown/etc, which I came back to the office and presented to a group of traders. I wrote and presented this portion using a tech driven strategy developed in python.
I was able to break in, but I worked my a** off for it, and I kept myself directed in what I was working towards for many years throughout university. I have a feeling I was a strong exception to their normal recruiting as I reached out and found them, & the majority of my coworkers here are Wharton/CMU/various ivy grads with more of a pipeline to wall street jobs.
OP - I'm sorry but a bsba doesn't cut it for this industry anymore and I'm saying that because it's fact, not to be rude to you. If you just want to join a trading arcade, more power to you, but you need to have a well developed background in mathematics to break in to the industry at a firm that is putting up its own capital nowadays. A handful of people here have tried voicing this to you and you responded back angrily instead of accepting the truth of the matter and seeing what you could do to improve yourself for these positions. That's not to say you can't do it - but you're gonna need to develop your background a lot more than a degree in business admin. and "trading for 3-6 months" in your PA to show you're actually interested and qualified in this industry.
He got debunked few times and changed his alias,it's been going on for ages.Same guy from Belgium,comedy LOL
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/is-it-time-to-ban-desterio.323977/page-8#post-4711521
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/malicious-multinicks-stalking.323223/page-31#post-4699033
Trendfollowing intraday. Self adapting system. I do not trade all day anymore, prefer to enjoy life. That's my top priority since a few years. I want to live a rich life, not die rich.
2-3 trades a day. The last three months a 4 points trade would be very lousy. I had in december 5 trades bigger then 50 points net each. Market is extremely (even insane) profitable at this moment. I have never had such a good period in the past 20 years.