how did successful traders learn how to trade?

[tomorton]

What if you have no reaction except disappointment when it doesn't work out following your system?

If you followed your system (which you already know is long run profitable), its hard but its vital to not feel disappointed. After all, when you built the system and wrote its rules, you built in the absolute mathematical certainty of some losing trades. But these don't mean you were wrong or your system is faulty.

If you followed your system, you did all the right things. If the system didn't work as well as it should have done, now you know why it fails under the given circumstances XYZ. Before XYZ happened and you were just getting winner after winner after winner, you didn't know if it would work or fail when XYZ occurred. But now you do know, so you can build in a modification or risk management tactic for when XYZ occurs again.

 

[aldrums]

Once you understand the fundamentals of trading and know how to execute orders, there is no use wasting time in a simulator when you have no idea how you are going to psychologically react to your system in real time.

 

[aldrums]

It’s not what you do, it’s how you think about what you do when you’re doing it. And you are NOT going to know how you think until you are under pressure in real time, trading.

 

[aldrums]

If you followed your system (which you already know is long run profitable), its hard but its vital to not feel disappointed.

I have to disagree with you here. It is VITAL to feel disappointed, and absolutely necessary for your economic survival. Your system sucks, it didn’t work in the real world. You don’t have a system at all, because the whole thing was developed under false pretenses.
If you think a system you developed that didn’t work is long-term profitable, and are trying to stay positive about it, you are setting yourself up for more failure down the road.

 

[speedo]

Once you understand the fundamentals of trading and know how to execute orders, there is no use wasting time in a simulator when you have no idea how you are going to psychologically react to your system in real time.

Trading in simulation does several important things. It forward tests your methodology to assess viability (profitability). It serves to build confidence in your methodology and your ability to execute it and it gives you practice in real time execution.

No, simulation and real are not the same thing but if you can't profit in a simulated environment, you sure as hell won't by going live.

 

[tiddlywinks]

You are so right.
Retail traders also have the distinct disadvantage of having to trade their own money. If I had to do it all over again I would get my degree in Economics at Harvard and go to work at a firm, getting my salary and expert mentorship while I learned to trade. Unfortunately by the time I had discovered what trading was, it was too late to do that!

Trading your own money is an advantage. From a learning viewpoint, your skin in the game SHOULD provide motivation for learning and excellence. From a lifestyle view, your skin in the game SHOULD provide motivation (plus inspiration) and persistence to attain the vision you have for your life.

I don't have, nor do I need a Harvard degree to be successful... and that means successful at WHATEVER, not just trading. I'm not against formal education, but face it, knowledge can be attained without one. The experience of how knowledge is attained is the difference.

In the early days of personal computers, I self-taught programming (several languages). I would pay per minute and log onto Compuserve with a 300 or maybe 1200 baud modem. Then I downloaded other peoples code, whatever I could find, no matter how simple or stupid. I rewrote those programs in my own time, place, space, and style. In about 2 years I became a highly paid, "experienced" programmer. On the side, I took the self-taught route into relational databases... I made databases out of everything!! And then designed queries for reporting. During the heyday of computers I was a highly sought, highly paid database administrator and programmer.

Back to trading... I grew up in an environment where stock markets and money was dinner table conversation. A tarnished silver spoon environment... we were not rich, but we were not in want. If I wanted something, I had to earn the money myself. I bought my stereo with my own money. I bought my first car from my grand parents with my own money. You get the picture. I bought my first stock when I was 13 give or take. My folks opened a joint account with my name on it at Smith Barney. A penny stock, Fared Robots, 1000 shares, traded on the Pink Sheets. And I made money!! I became a student of the markets ever since. Now,I am a fulltime independent futures trader since 2005, and still a student of the markets.

@aldrums , you seem to have many regrets surrounding YOUR trading.

 

[Gueco]

losing money and amibroker/quantshare

 

[JSOP]

You are so right.
Retail traders also have the distinct disadvantage of having to trade their own money. If I had to do it all over again I would get my degree in Economics at Harvard and go to work at a firm, getting my salary and expert mentorship while I learned to trade. Unfortunately by the time I had discovered what trading was, it was too late to do that!

Those BIG huge institutions hardly trade any better than retail traders.

https://traderscommunity.com/index....oses-100-million-on-natural-gas-basis-trade-2

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-bets-in-third-quarter-idUSBRE9AK01C20131122\

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/30/goldman-sachs-reportedly-sold-controversial-venezuelan-bonds.html

http://business.financialpost.com/p...-posts-1-9-billion-4q-loss-due-to-new-tax-law

They lose pretty much every single year and actually multiple times in 2017 when most of us actually had good profit in 2017 and now they are losing big again in 2018 and are blaming the losses on Trump. LOL

Two of the largest brokerage houses, Lehman Brothers and Bears & Stearns even went bankrupt during the 2008 Financial Crisis. And look at the other banks? They have to be bailed out $750 million from the government.

Their losses are lot larger. They are just bigger with more money and are trading with other people's money so they can lose whatever and when they lose too much, they get bailed out. So I don't know how much good it would do us to learn to trade like them after being mentored by them when we are lot less capitalized and when we lose, there is no one there to bail us out. LOL

Honestly I feel retail traders actually trade lot more prudently lot better because we have so much at stake and our loss threshold is so low. And in terms of education, Economics is nice in giving you a good foundation but it really doesn't teach you anything about trading. Actually getting your feet wet trading is really the best way to learn to trade; there is no other ways. You can read all the books, watch all the videos, attend all the seminars listening to those "gurus" talk, but it would be totally different when you are actually putting the money on the line trading.

 

[ET180]

Once you understand the fundamentals of trading and know how to execute orders, there is no use wasting time in a simulator when you have no idea how you are going to psychologically react to your system in real time.

That's why I have often given the advice to beginners to trade size so small, you almost don't care what happens. There's no shame in starting small. New traders will make the most mistakes, so better to make mistakes with a small amount of money than large. Also, trading large size messes with psychology. Better to trade small and get the mechanics down and then only when one is consistently profitable (for at least months) then scale up gradually.

 

[aldrums]

[QUOTE="tiddlywinks, post: 4632236], member: 69812@aldrums , you seem to have many regrets surrounding YOUR trading .[/QUOTE]

Awesome post...except for this last part! I do believe in the power of educating yourself...absolutely. I also know a little database programming, and I use MS Access to gather data on the markets and plan each trading day.
I absolutely have no regrets. Every trading day is a day I can do better, and I can’t wait for the New York open to prove it.