How come there is no OPTIONS for crude oil?

M

misterno

I opened an account in optionsexpress and searched and found 2017 December crude oil CZL17. The price is around $71.50 and this I believe is futures not options.

I looked all the databases but was not able to find call options for crude oil. Can anyone give me some information where to find?
 
One place to start would be http://tinyurl.com/7yqup7

Another place to start would be the help desk at optionsexpress. Maybe "someone" set up your account in a way that prevents the website from giving you access to the options pages.
 
I believe they are floor traded Crude options, at least they were way back. The brokers can't figure out how to deliver quotes electronically because of the complexity of pricing commodity type futures options.

Here is a comment I made on one of the Education Resources threads to the OP of that thread praising the book on futures option selling:

The book is actually misleading and dangerous.
Why? Because it fails to even mention that the relationship of the different futures expirations of certain futures is not always linear i.e. there are different crop months and transitional months in some commodities and delivery constrains that do not affect all the traded months the same way. In addition some futures can go in backwardation.

If one sold Crude when it was in the $50 range, and stayed short and rolled, they have lost not $100 by the time Crude went to $150 but several x 100 because each front month expired $5-$10 over the next listed month. This of course is working the other way for the time being.

The above features of futures throw the accepted and widely used Black/Scholes pricing method in disarray.

Two years ago IB was going to roll out their Crude Option quoting. What happened to that?

Regards,

GC
 
Quote from gurucandidate:

I believe they are floor traded Crude options, at least they were way back. The brokers can't figure out how to deliver quotes electronically because of the complexity of pricing commodity type futures options.

Here is a comment I made on one of the Education Resources threads to the OP of that thread praising the book on futures option selling:

The book is actually misleading and dangerous.
Why? Because it fails to even mention that the relationship of the different futures expirations of certain futures is not always linear i.e. there are different crop months and transitional months in some commodities and delivery constrains that do not affect all the traded months the same way. In addition some futures can go in backwardation.

If one sold Crude when it was in the $50 range, and stayed short and rolled, they have lost not $100 by the time Crude went to $150 but several x 100 because each front month expired $5-$10 over the next listed month. This of course is working the other way for the time being.

The above features of futures throw the accepted and widely used Black/Scholes pricing method in disarray.

Two years ago IB was going to roll out their Crude Option quoting. What happened to that?

Regards,

GC
More...

I have access to NYMEX electronic dealing in "CL" options in London on my firm's platform, but I don't know if Interactive Brokers offers the product, but I would assume the product is available at IB. The majority of the open interest is still traded on the floor.

What is your rationale for your complexity statement? Grain options have been available for over two years.

Your "linear expiration" argument in nonsensical. January options in a hypothetical "HMUZ" futures expiration would result in January options being marked to March futures. Calendar option spreads are affected which forces the trader to hedge in futures calendars. It's more complex but in no way inhibits listing the contracts electronically.
 
Quote from misterno:

I opened an account in optionsexpress and searched and found 2017 December crude oil CZL17. The price is around $71.50 and this I believe is futures not options.

I looked all the databases but was not able to find call options for crude oil. Can anyone give me some information where to find?
More...
having an account with OE is not enough to view crude oil options prices...you need to open a FUTURES account with OE and not just a normal account to trade stocks and options...what did you open with them?
 
Quote from gurucandidate:

The above features of futures throw the accepted and widely used Black/Scholes pricing method in disarray.

Two years ago IB was going to roll out their Crude Option quoting. What happened to that?
More...

Disarray? How?

An IB client from the US has informed me that he's been trading NYMEX CL electronically through IB for months. Victor, thanks for the information.
 
I see there are indeed electronically traded CL options at IB. Good news.

I refereed to complexity in pricing options for option writers and defensive strategies which the author totally missed.
I imagine IB and other brokers took their time to implement CL electronic options because they tried to figure out how to assign client exposure to option spreads.

As far as your comment:

{Your "linear expiration" argument in nonsensical. January options in a hypothetical "HMUZ" futures expiration would result in January options being marked to March futures. Calendar option spreads are affected which forces the trader to hedge in futures calendars. It's more complex but in no way inhibits listing the contracts electronically.}

No, exactly because they are non linear they can not peg the front month for example to the next one.
Try it, be long or short the February at expiration and see if it will be marked to March:)

GC
 
Quote from gurucandidate:

I see there are indeed electronically traded CL options at IB. Good news.

I refereed to complexity in pricing options for option writers and defensive strategies which the author totally missed.
I imagine IB and other brokers took their time to implement CL electronic options because they tried to figure out how to assign client exposure to option spreads.

As far as your comment:

{Your "linear expiration" argument in nonsensical. January options in a hypothetical "HMUZ" futures expiration would result in January options being marked to March futures. Calendar option spreads are affected which forces the trader to hedge in futures calendars. It's more complex but in no way inhibits listing the contracts electronically.}


No, exactly because they are non linear they can not peg the front month for example to the next one.
Try it, be long or short the February at expiration and see if it will be marked to March:)

GC
More...



The option contract expires prior to the futures on which they are derived. I find it comical that you profess to know when you haven't a clue.




"Futures Last Trading Day

Trading terminates at the close of business on the third business day prior to the 25th calendar day of the month preceding the delivery month. If the 25th calendar day of the month is a non-business day, trading shall cease on the third business day prior to the business day preceding the 25th calendar day."

"2009 Option Expirations

January 16-Dec
February 14-Jan
March 17-Feb
April 17-Mar
May 16-Apr
June 14-May
July 17-Jun
August 16-Jul
September 17-Aug
October 17-Sep
November 15-Oct
December 17-Nov"
 
Quote from gurucandidate:

I see there are indeed electronically traded CL options at IB. Good news.

I refereed to complexity in pricing options for option writers and defensive strategies which the author totally missed.
I imagine IB and other brokers took their time to implement CL electronic options because they tried to figure out how to assign client exposure to option spreads.
More...

So option buyers and offensive strategies are advantaged due to complexity? I am still unclear on where this apparent complexity arises. Options on futures expire prior to the futures for which they are marked. Please, let's end this with your admission that you are simply talking out of your ass.

:p
 
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