How are my orders getting jumped in the queue at a given Limit price?

Gotcha said:
Can you provide more detail about this? There was another post here that mentioned pinging the order.

The same issue happens in Futures as well but your much better off staying with futures when it comes to execution of orders.

Pinging - Sometimes people will see a big offer and will buy a few to see if the guy runs and all the offers go away or if its a legit order really willing to sell. Spoofing is illegal but it still happens all the time and the exchanges have resolved the issue by charging them a fee for every order so they keep quiet. It's only a problem when we have a flash crash and the politicians want a scape goat like that kid trading in the basement of the parents house in the UK. They have him locked up in a jail in the UK pending extradition to the US to face charges that he brought down the US financial markets in 2010. He was putting in large sell orders which he removed as soon as buyers came in and started nibbling. So he got short and put huge sell orders in and the market tanked, once he was up 10 Million, he bought back his shorts and then removed all his sell orders and then supposedly the whole world stepped in and bought the shares right back up to unchanged on the day....and we are suppose to believe it was his sell orders above the market on that one day vs every other day where he did the same thing, had brought the whole financial system to it's knees.... now we all know that the order book itself is only looked at by algo's and the rest of the world don't even have access but whatever.... they got him in a bright orange jump suit already.
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Stymie said:
The same issue happens in Futures as well but your much better off staying with futures when it comes to execution of orders.

Pinging - Sometimes people will see a big offer and will buy a few to see if the guy runs and all the offers go away or if its a legit order really willing to sell. Spoofing is illegal but it still happens all the time and the exchanges have resolved the issue by charging them a fee for every order so they keep quiet. It's only a problem when we have a flash crash and the politicians want a scape goat like that kid trading in the basement of the parents house in the UK. They have him locked up in a jail in the UK pending extradition to the US to face charges that he brought down the US financial markets in 2010. He was putting in large sell orders which he removed as soon as buyers came in and started nibbling. So he got short and put huge sell orders in and the market tanked, once he was up 10 Million, he bought back his shorts and then removed all his sell orders and then supposedly the whole world stepped in and bought the shares right back up to unchanged on the day....and we are suppose to believe it was his sell orders above the market on that one day vs every other day where he did the same thing, had brought the whole financial system to it's knees.... now we all know that the order book itself is only looked at by algo's and the rest of the world don't even have access but whatever.... they got him in a bright orange jump suit already.
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Oh yes, I see spoofing happening all the bloody time. I imagine part of it is to do with leaving the order book somewhat neutral in terms of bids vs. asks. I've seen videos where people suggest that if the bids outnumber the asks, it shows more buying interest or shit like that. But its all ridiculous because they easily pile on the outside bids or asks to balance things out, and on top of this, the ratio just goes back and forth constantly, like every second.

I feel almost bad for that guy because all he did was exactly the same thing that all these firms do. Only difference is he did it from his basement and doesn't have a legal department or, rather, didn't pay off the right people.

In terms of the pinging, thanks. So essentially they do have to buy some and see if the bid or offer holds once some have been filled. With futures, sometimes these offers are pulled when price gets close enough. I especially like it when in a fraction of a second, you see 4 or 5 entire levels taken out. Not sure if this is predatory, and obviously I cannot process what is happening since these bots are reacting in microsecond time frames, but it seems as if someone sweeps the entire book to see what is legit or not, or maybe they just want to take as much as they can get. Sometimes these sweeps are in the direction of the subsequent move, but sometimes its in the opposite direction... so hard to figure out the edge there.
 
Come on guys, let's not make a mosquito into an elephant.

There's no spoofing here. Spoofing is when you put in an order to actively direct the market in the other direction, which is never meant to trade.

If you are trading an algo, or are HFT/MM... you put in quotes and when something changes you are completely.

And don't overthink things like brokers supposedly selling your trades to HFT. They are regulatory bound by providing the best price/execution aren't they? At least, they are in Europe/Australia according to Mifid regs.... why isn't this the case yet in the US?

@Stymie ... investing long term.. what's the fun in that? ;)
 
JackRab said:
And don't overthink things like brokers supposedly selling your trades to HFT. They are regulatory bound by providing the best price/execution aren't they? At least, they are in Europe/Australia according to Mifid regs.... why isn't this the case yet in the US?
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Something inside me just died a little...after all this discussions about subpenny trades and payment for orderflow, you did learn nothing?????

https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/AMTD2054.pdf
http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn/legal_compliance/important_notices/order_routing.html

So please don't trivialize this stuff when you don't have any idea, what you are talking about.
 
johnbennett103 said:
Seems like a pretty thin issued stock with a nickle bid/ask. I am sure this is contributing to your problem.
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%%
Strange, JB how so many market patterns repeat.That stock is not liquid, Mr ODrian, 47. IF they are front running you now, what has happened @ $4.70?? If that penny stock has not made it to $4.70 , in the past--Houston we have another problem, especialy since '' its a mature bull market you know'', in SPY.

I will give one exception to the don't buy under $5.00 guideline.NOT saying you should ever buy any under $5, +dont try this @ home;FCX dipped under $5.oo or $4.70, for about 24.7 /+ days.Volume = about 47 million/+. But its liquid above $5. But it is[ or was ,LOL] part of SPY+ liquid above $5.I never had any problem with SMART; + even if a broker does sell for order FloW that is not brokers fault-its the trader/investors.Hope this helps; it helps me.
 
Overnight said:
It is happening all the time, all around us. We only hear about it after the perps have been caught. We never hear about what is happening in the here and now.

http://www.cmegroup.com/notices/disciplinary/2016/11/COMEX-14-0050-BC-SIMON-POSEN.html#pageNumber=1
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Off course... I do it as well... put in an order... pull it again... but is that really spoofing?

It seems to me, that a lot of people here are putting the blame on some algo/hft for their trades not working... instead, they should just think of something that actually has the potential to work in a decent risk/reward way....
 
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