Hooti's Journey

Quote from NoDoji:

Make a note of key S/R levels before you begin trading. It will help you decide whether the potential risk:reward is worth it, or if it's better to wait for the next setup.

I will often try the trades anyway, even if a key S/R level is nearby, because if they do break, the move can be awesome, BUT I will exit very quickly if there's no follow through. That's why at least half my trades each day (and sometimes more) tend to be b/e trades, because you just never know when the market will surprise you.

I looked back at S/R, I just misread... I didn't think it would enter such a tight trading range so soon. I hindsight, oh yes, it was likely!

Didn't realize how you were exiting so quickly, and why.
That is a trading range day strategy... moreso than on trending days? I've kind of had Geez's "put it in and forget it" concept for all circumstances.
 
Quote from SteveH:

Hooti,
Best of luck to you. I'll say this one last time. Once you start trading the CL, you won't want to trade the ES. The higher volatility is your friend.

Thanks Steve,
I'll have to look at the CL to really grasp what you are saying. Have to actually do it once or twice before it soaks in! What you are saying sounds exactly right and practical too.
 
Quote from NoDoji:

Breakouts in CL kick booty. They either work really well or your loss is small (if you follow rules) or non-existent (if you're a chicken-shit trader like me) :p

I only play breakouts in CL when I'm not already positioned in advance for the breakout. My primary goal is to be positioned for the breakout in the first place based on a PROPER with-trend entry. If you trade ES that way (position yourself properly with the trend) then it's really the same as any other trading instrument.

Hooti has what it takes to trade ES. That said, I think he also has what it takes to trade CL. The ingredients to trading CL successfully off a 5-min chart are (in order of importance): inviolable risk management rules, an edge, trust, patience.

Everything SteveH says here is true. Especially the part about how I use volatility, not skill. No doubt.

Thanks Nodoji, I'll keep working on it.
Especially the part about being positioned for the BO in the first place, etc.!
And doubtless, your use of volitility is in and of it's self a consumate skill!

Will think more about what you and Steve have said,
we have over 20 people still visiting here and I've some chores to do!
 
Quote from SteveH:

Hooti,

Remember, Al Brooks is a self-professed, over-confident perfectionist. He said that even to trade his methods, you need to have at least a 67% winning pct in order not to blow out your account. Why? Because his scalping methods on the ES call for risking 1 dollar in order to extract 50 cents on average from the market. He is placing buy/sell stops, giving himself a 2 pt stop and looking for a 1 pt target.

Because the CL contract has such great volatility, you can get out many times on a break even on the false breakouts in order to get to the good ones. Otherwise, why on earth would Donna be getting farked out of her positions 50% of the time if buy/sell stop with-the-trend was so great and STILL be making $400+ per day just on 1 CL contract? Answer: because she chokes off all of those potential losers for b/e + 1 tick. That's not skill. That's taking advantage of the higher volatility levels the CL provides in order to protect the position.

The ES is different. You get no such leeway there on using that loss control method simply because the ES has lower volatility characteristics. The big money in that contract thrives off of faking out the non-pros, draining their accounts as they buy/sell at the wrong times relative to readings on the NYSE TICK.

Al Brooks survives price pullbacks differently (and he has to because of the nature of how the ES moves). He gives a wider stop and takes 1 pt scalps because he (personally) can get that 80% win pct level consistently. He makes up for the small wins by trading large size. If the majority of his trading days were 67% winners or lower, he's already warned that he too would be dead meat.

Common sense should tell you that the higher volatility contracts offer you more trading opportunities where your winning pct does not have to be a key factor in your long-term success. Why? Because you can find more reward to risk ratio opportunities which are 2 : 1 in your favor WITHOUT interim pullbacks to achieve them.

Best of luck to you. I'll say this one last time. Once you start trading the CL, you won't want to trade the ES. The higher volatility is your friend.

Excellent post (I understand that you are <u>not</u> saying that Nod has no skill, but rather that she makes things easy for herself and then applies whatever skill she has). :)
 
es is the #1 best to day trade in the futures market. the reason is, too liquid. what i mean by too liquid is, es is perfect to day trade when not using stop but by adding to average down.

when a market is too liquid, the price will not move extreme fast vs small liquid market like crude. The bid/ask spread on the es is extreme tight by 1 tick vs crude by 2-4cents or sometime 10-20cents for no reason
 
Quote from emg:

The bid/ask spread on the es is extreme tight by 1 tick vs crude by 2-4cents or sometime 10-20cents for no reason

Poppycock! The only time the spread is more than 1 tick in crude is 15 seconds before a major economic report and the only time it's 10-20 cents is 15 seconds before inventories and occasionally in the minute after inventories.

ES is extremely liquid for those wanting to move 100 or more contracts at a time easily.

They trade differently and you can average down more easily with ES than CL without getting your ass handed to you. If you play levels with ES, you can trade it successfully with stops.

Hooti definitely has what it takes to trade ES well. CL is a very different animal and one should take a lot of time becoming familiar with it in a safe environment before trading it live.

Quote from Picaso:

Excellent post (I understand that you are <u>not</u> saying that Nod has no skill, but rather that she makes things easy for herself and then applies whatever skill she has). :)

The greatest skills you can cultivate in trading are focus, patience, trust, and the ability to choose and fully accept in advance the price you're willing to pay for the privilege of putting on a trade.

Finding and defining an edge, then defining rules for trading that edge, requires pure sweat, hours and hours of your time. But the skill part of the equation is all about the psychology and I still have a looong way to go on that end.
 
Quote from Picaso:

Excellent post (I understand that you are <u>not</u> saying that Nod has no skill, but rather that she makes things easy for herself and then applies whatever skill she has). :)

Thanks Picaso, I'm for making it as easy as I can too! Doing that is not easy tho...
 
Quote from NoDoji:

the skill part of the equation is all about the psychology and I still have a looong way to go on that end. [/B]

Long ways for me too. But that is kind of the fun.

It will take 3 vehicals to get everyone to the airport late today.
Then I can dedicate my trading station again without having to think about 2 - 8 year olds getting at it!

Best of the new year to all....
 
Quote from NoDoji:

Poppycock! The only time the spread is more than 1 tick in crude is 15 seconds before a major economic report and the only time it's 10-20 cents is 15 seconds before inventories and occasionally in the minute after inventories.

ES is extremely liquid for those wanting to move 100 or more contracts at a time easily.

They trade differently and you can average down more easily with ES than CL without getting your ass handed to you. If you play levels with ES, you can trade it successfully with stops.

Hooti definitely has what it takes to trade ES well. CL is a very different animal and one should take a lot of time becoming familiar with it in a safe environment before trading it live.



The greatest skills you can cultivate in trading are focus, patience, trust, and the ability to choose and fully accept in advance the price you're willing to pay for the privilege of putting on a trade.

Finding and defining an edge, then defining rules for trading that edge, requires pure sweat, hours and hours of your time. But the skill part of the equation is all about the psychology and I still have a looong way to go on that end.

what is a poppycock? hahahaa
 
Quote from Hooti:

Then I can dedicate my trading station again without having to think about 2 - 8 year olds getting at it!

I'm pretty sure you could get the 8-year old to follow pure technical trading rules without any of that psychology garbage that screws up our trades :p :p :p
 
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