I am afraid the world is a lot more complicated than this. Russia and China are two very different animals. What Russia is doing is really not that different than what the US has been doing all along. Putting its dirty fingers where it does not belong. My only issue I voiced in this threat, though, was that Germany and Europe has a sovereign right to determine its own energy policy. I can only assume that your post was motivated after reading a bbg article how Europeans warm to the Biden admin against China?
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- Thread starter samovar
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EU isn't unified. Germans built the Nord Stream 1 to bypass Baltics and Poland who got transit fees before the pipeline was built. And NS1 was not purely up to Germany and Russia to decide. Estonia and Finland could have legally extended the naval economic zone and block the pipeline. This was not done due to veiled threats by Germany. This was quite hostile by Germany and Russia.
Still cannot trade HSI futures via IB TWS. Very annoying as I traded these futures a while ago. Not trade them currently but like the option of trading them.
I have not heard of any threats voiced towards Finland, care to share some sources? And re Poland I am sorry but Poland to me should first set up democratic institutions and be a contributing EU member then they have a say. Before that they should shut up. It's a pipeline between Russia and Germany and hence Germany in the EU should have the most say.
In the EU rarely is anything public because you cannot show internal conflict to outsiders. The public opinion was against the pipeline (Baltic sea is still laden with mines and all sorts of WWII cargo) as was the political class. In the end the politicians basically said "we were made to understand by Germany that we cannot resist this". It's not complicated to understand what happened.
So if you think only net contributing EU members should have a say, then wealthier EU members basically bought the poorer ones. The less wealthy are just vassal states. It's not an union anymore.
But yes, Germany can and has used it's pressure on other nations. So should Poland and the Baltics use their power. If it means making deals with the US then that's the way to go. But yet you have a problem with that?
Not what I read or heard. American opinion was against the pipeline. Then they infected some poorer countries in the EU that they somehow pressured. I don't recall that Holland, Belgium, France, or other major countries were strongly opposed to it.
It has never been a union. Let's be honest for a moment. It was set up so Germany and France will be at peace. That's at least my conviction. And yes I think those who contribute the most should have more say than those whose entire current existence depends on subsidies. But that's aside the point. Most countries in Europe were not against the pipeline. I really do not accept Polands attitude. They opened their hands whenever they could and got richly rewarded for joining Europe in exchange for almost nothing. You don't fuck the hand that feeds you and collude with a global competitor who has a strong economic interest to see the EU fail. That is fucked up.
It has never been a union. Let's be honest for a moment. It was set up so Germany and France will be at peace. That's at least my conviction. And yes I think those who contribute the most should have more say than those whose entire current existence depends on subsidies. But that's aside the point. Most countries in Europe were not against the pipeline. I really do not accept Polands attitude. They opened their hands whenever they could and got richly rewarded for joining Europe in exchange for almost nothing. You don't fuck the hand that feeds you and collude with a global competitor who has a strong economic interest to see the EU fail. That is fucked up.
Not true at all. Russia has throughout it's history used oil and gas as a weapon against Europe. Any event that Russia did not like and they started talking about shutting down gas supplies. It had little to nothing to do with America. Russia already carried out the threat with Ukraine during mid-winter. People died due to Russian extortion.
Relying on Russia means doing exactly what Russia wants and how they want it. They want to annex the rest of Ukraine or any other country -- Germany: "we don't approve but we will do exactly nothing because our industrial sector depends on Russian gas". America is a far more reliable partner in every aspect.
Other EU countries are not against it because it doesn't concern them much at all. So why would they have a strong opinion on it?
The story with Ukraine was that they racked up a huge bill with Russia and refused to pay their bill. That's when Russia shut the supplies. Since then Ukraine has countless times threatened to interrupt supply from Russia to Europe which originated the idea of building a pipeline to circumvent Ukraine.
Since then America realized that the EU had no need for American LNG deliveries, something some American suppliers were heavily investing in. Also the mere idea of more dependence of Europe on Russian resource supplies stung in America's eyes. That's the story how I recall it.
That was my point, that most other European countries were not against it, they saw the benefit of this pipeline because it came from Russia anyway (as before) but now the risk of disruptions is minimized. It's not fun to sit in a cold home in the winter.
America is a far more reliable partner? Like with the vaccines during the pandemic? Or at a much higher cost? Building the pipeline does not mean not to buy American LNG. It just means to have more options.
Since then America realized that the EU had no need for American LNG deliveries, something some American suppliers were heavily investing in. Also the mere idea of more dependence of Europe on Russian resource supplies stung in America's eyes. That's the story how I recall it.
That was my point, that most other European countries were not against it, they saw the benefit of this pipeline because it came from Russia anyway (as before) but now the risk of disruptions is minimized. It's not fun to sit in a cold home in the winter.
America is a far more reliable partner? Like with the vaccines during the pandemic? Or at a much higher cost? Building the pipeline does not mean not to buy American LNG. It just means to have more options.
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Russia only turned off the taps when Ukrainians started to question the Russia interference in Ukrainian politics. They've done the same in the Baltics, any news which goes against Kremlin's liking and the gas talk starts. It's a simple, blunt, economic weapon, nothing else.
From my neck of the woods, almost everyone prefers US as a partner vs. Russia. Neither is perfect but one doesn't have nukes directly aimed at cities on the border.
The conflict coincided with Ukraine not honoring its energy contracts with Gazprom. Happened multiple times already. And by the way the US aimed missiles directly at most Russian cities straight out of Germany. Still? I don't know. Ease don't get my wrong, I prefer the US as trading partner over Russia any dya but I believe the game the US is playing with the Nordstream is a blatant interference into sovereign rights and territory that is none of the US's business. Also, the US has played the game of energy, food, aid vs political favors for decades,everywhere around the world. Friend and foe alike. That nice phone hacking scandal by NSA of Ms Merkel also comes to mind. The list is way to long here that shows that the US plays the exact same game that Russia is playing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29521564.amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29521564.amp
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