Hong Kong indexes no longer available for trading?

I agree with you on all points re China. But I find the picking and choosing on the West's side hypocritical. It's not just 3 companies the are beholden to the communist regime. It's the entire Chinese corporate sector.

So, again, why is Alibaba trading on an AMERICAN exchange right now as we speak while the Hang Seng index in HK is banned? Makes no sense from the intent's perspective.

JSOP said:
These Chinese companies do not just provide backdoors to the Chinese military. They are OWNED by the Chinese military aka the Chinese government. When you invest in these companies, you are directly giving money to the Chinese government for them to do everything including but not limited to, sanctioning western governments, raising tariffs on foreign imports, occupying islands in the South China Sea, violating the Basic Law principles with regards to Hong Kong, expanding geopolitical influences in establishing the one-belt-one-road initiatives with the explicit exclusion of western countries ...

This is only the few ways left that the west can still do to keep some autonomy from being completely taken over by China. Relax, US and the rest of the western world is still trading with China. It's not like the US and the west are completely excluding China, not that China cares in any way now that it's its own world economy and can really sustain its own domestic economy without trading with anybody.
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DiceAreCast said:
link to the law or signed bill pls. I would like to see where the regulator or administration specifically prohibits trading in Hang Seng or any index that contains any of the 3 companies on the sanctioned list. Not saying it can't be but I have not found anything even after some search. Please no clippings from a newspaper, I can find that myself. I am interested in the SOURCE.

Alibaba happily trading on Nasdaq but can't trade Hang Seng Index? Height of hyprocisy.
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Alibaba is not on the list of sanctioned companies that's owned and/or controlled by the Chinese military. It's so far still individually owned by Ma Yun or Jack Ma depending on where you read his name. That's why it can be traded on Nasdaq and can trade still in Hong Kong but if an index contains Chinese military-owned companies then THAT particular index cannot be traded, has nothing to do with Hang Seng index. It's not that complicated.

Don't trade that f***ing index. Trade those individual Chinese companies that are not owned by the Chinese military, not yet anyway.
 
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Which company in the HSI is military owned? :confused:

JSOP said:
Alibaba is not on the list of sanctioned companies that's owned and/or controlled by the Chinese military. It's so far still individually owned by Ma Yun or Jack Ma depending on where you read his name. That's why it can be traded on Nasdaq and can trade still in Hong Kong but if an index contains Chinese military-owned companies then THAT particular index cannot be traded. It's not that complicated.

Don't trade that f***ing index. Trade those individual Chinese companies that are not owned by the Chinese military, not yet anyway.
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AMP Futures explained it quie well here: https://support.ampglobal.com/hc/en...8393-Hong-Kong-HKEX-Trading-has-been-Disabled

US Treasury confirmed that futures and stock indexes that comprise those companies are also covered by the sanction.

What interested me as a non US citizen (and living in New Zealand) was:

a) AMP made it a blanket ban when in fact the sanction does not apply to me (non US citizen). But I can understand AMP's position because I *could* be a US citizen living in NZ - AMP would not know. So just easier for AMP to disable access for all customers.

b) I was surprised that the volume of futures contracts on the HKFE has not really changed. I assumed a lot more of the volume would have come out of the USA as the HKFE hours I understand are not too bad for trading after work in the USA.
 
steve2222 said:
AMP Futures explained it quie well here: https://support.ampglobal.com/hc/en...8393-Hong-Kong-HKEX-Trading-has-been-Disabled

US Treasury confirmed that futures and stock indexes that comprise those companies are also covered by the sanction.

What interested me as a non US citizen (and living in New Zealand) was:

a) AMP made it a blanket ban when in fact the sanction does not apply to me (non US citizen). But I can understand AMP's position because I *could* be a US citizen living in NZ - AMP would not know. So just easier for AMP to disable access for all customers.

b) I was surprised that the volume of futures contracts on the HKFE has not really changed. I assumed a lot more of the volume would have come out of the USA as the HKFE hours I understand are not too bad for trading after work in the USA.
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Just shows how little of an impact the west makes in Asian economy. Totally justifies China's position of doesn't give a s***. LOL
 
@JSOP, do you realize your argument is not logical at all?

JSOP said:
Why don't you trade in US companies and US indices? Plenty of money to be made there still.
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I do trade in US companies and indices as well.

JSOP said:
Why so insistent on handing money over to a foreign authoritarian regime?
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Huh? How the heck did you come up with that being my intention?

0. As a trader, I care about alpha, not politics.
1. Sometimes I'd find better trading opportunities in the MHI (not even the HSI).
2. Trading an index doesn't directly funnel money to "a foreign authoritarian regime".
3. The amounts I trade are puny, and even if hundreds of thousands of Americans traded those indexes, that would not make much of a dent. The Chinese regime has enough money, and as it was pointed out earlier in the thread, volume barely decreased on the HKFE.
 
Thank you but where does it state that even index futures that contain those companies are not allowed to be traded by US residents or corporations? I must have missed it

Trading in futures does not hand money to any company, it takes or gives away to the counterpart of the futures contract.

JSOP said:
https://home.treasury.gov/policy-is...ormation/chinese-military-companies-sanctions

C'mon have some faith in your own country!! Why don't you trade in US companies and US indices? Plenty of money to be made there still. Why so insistent on handing money over to a foreign authoritarian regime? :confused:
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I don't think the link clarifies that index futures whose underlying contains any of banned companies are included in the prohibition to be traded. According to my understanding of the relevant sections is that treasury specified stocks or directly derived securities. That is why GS and the likes stopped sponsoring and trading relevant warrants, stock options and the like. I hear that GS still shows up as counterparty in HSI futures locally in HK. They are a US linked entity, even the HK branch. And they need to because hsi is used for short term hedges all day long by large players. For example GS is quite a large player in HK program trading and I know for sure that they are still running multiple index arb books in HK.

Obviously my understanding could be wrong but at least we now have some specifics from the source. Thanks for sharing that

By the way the reason volume is hardly affected is because a large HK based crowd, both retail and professionals, trade Hangseng and hshare futures. Unlike kospi the foreign participation in HSI is way lower last time I checked.

This entire issue is a travesty in my opinion. China can easily put all American companies on a banned list who directly supply the US government with military technology and that easily disqualifies the entire spx500 and russel2000 because of the companies in the index that do openly collaborate with the US government. Did you get the sense that the trade war had any positive effect on the US economy? I did not. It appears much more like some desperate measure by an administration that had no clue what it was doing. Let's see whether Biden will hold up this ban or whether something changes. It does not appear as if Biden is in any hurry to ease the tensions.

steve2222 said:
AMP Futures explained it quie well here: https://support.ampglobal.com/hc/en...8393-Hong-Kong-HKEX-Trading-has-been-Disabled

US Treasury confirmed that futures and stock indexes that comprise those companies are also covered by the sanction.

What interested me as a non US citizen (and living in New Zealand) was:

a) AMP made it a blanket ban when in fact the sanction does not apply to me (non US citizen). But I can understand AMP's position because I *could* be a US citizen living in NZ - AMP would not know. So just easier for AMP to disable access for all customers.

b) I was surprised that the volume of futures contracts on the HKFE has not really changed. I assumed a lot more of the volume would have come out of the USA as the HKFE hours I understand are not too bad for trading after work in the USA.
More...
 
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