Honestly, Can You Be Successful Without a HUGE Account?

Hi Traders,

I think that the point most traders miss is having a business plan in place before they start trading.

In other words, if they start with an account of $3,500 (the minimum at www.zaner.com (clearing through TransAct)), then the trader should have a plan as to how much to make each day, maximum daily Stop Trading Loss amount and weekly profit draw.

So for example, a trade could aim to make $100 per day trading 1 contract for the first 2 weeks. Withdraw $250 a week for savings and grow the account by $500.

In the 3rd week, the trader might increase the contract position to 2 contracts and aim to net $100 per day per contract traded, or $200 per day.

Again, he/she could withdraw $250 a week for 2 weeks and grow the account by $1500.

I think you get my point. Frankly, 20 Points a day on the YM, 1 point on the ER2 or 2 points on the ES is not that difficult to achieve.

It's important to have "growth" plan for your account and a risk management plan as well. For instance, a maximum daily loss of $200 per contract could be put in place to Stop the trader from trading further if that amount is ever hit. At least the Trader can get back into trading the next day without having blown his/her account.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

Cheers!

Tfuad.
 
having a plan for how much to make each day, is not part of a good business plan. it's frankly stupid.

you will make what the market gives you.

you can enter your setups perfectly and lose money

you can screw up and make it.

in the short run.

so, having this sort of stuff is counterintuitive to trading, which should be based on process analysis

a good business plan sets rules for positions sizing, setups, when to take money out of account, when to trade, what setups to use, etc.

but artificial limits as to how much you can or should make in a day are ridiculous and deny the fact that the market does not care how much you want or need to make.

a good day could easily see 200 or 300 pts.

why limit yourself artificially.

don't concentrate on results (in the short term) - optimal, minimum, or otherwise.

good traders concentrate on PROCESS, and that is what the business plan addresses, or should
 
Ok Whistler,

I Agree to Disagree with you. But I won't call your thoughts stupid.

I set daily Profit targets so that I know when to Stop Trading - since I have reached my goal for the day why risk giving it back?

In the almost 9 years which I've been Futures Trading, I've all too often seen traders "over trade" the day's profits away.

For example, they're up in the morning and then give it all back and then some in the afternoon.

Since I do this for a living, I've found that as long as you set reasonable Point/tick targets for the day, you'll end up ahead.

Besides, I do trail my Stop on the last couple of contracts, so that, on some days I'm well ahead of my Point target.

This method, also ensures that on some days, I take my money early and can go off and do other things.

Frankly, to each his own...but this works for me, I'm making money and if it's stupid, then being being Rich and Dumb sure feels nice!

Happy Trading!

Tfuad.
 
For those Traders who are interested, please take a look at the attached picture file.

It illustrates a sample trading business plan based on the E-Mini S&P 500.

To this, you need to add the set-ups you will or will not take, the time(s) of day that you're not comfortable trading and the maximum Absolute Daily Loss Limit.

Also, if your trading methodology can't consistently give you 2 Points net per day, then you need to find a more reliable and less stressful methodology.

Happy Trading!

Tfuad.
 

Attachments

Quote from whitster:

1 ...having a plan for how much to make each day, is not part of a good business plan. it's frankly stupid.

2 ...why limit yourself artificially.

3 ...good traders concentrate on PROCESS,
More...

Hi Whitster,

Hate to mention it, but these three statements are contradictory.
Whether you are actively in the markets are not, you are offering restrictive thinking.

regards
f9
 
Quote from whitster:

having a plan for how much to make each day, is not part of a good business plan. it's frankly stupid.

you will make what the market gives you.

you can enter your setups perfectly and lose money

you can screw up and make it.

in the short run.

so, having this sort of stuff is counterintuitive to trading, which should be based on process analysis

a good business plan sets rules for positions sizing, setups, when to take money out of account, when to trade, what setups to use, etc.

but artificial limits as to how much you can or should make in a day are ridiculous and deny the fact that the market does not care how much you want or need to make.

a good day could easily see 200 or 300 pts.

why limit yourself artificially.

don't concentrate on results (in the short term) - optimal, minimum, or otherwise.

good traders concentrate on PROCESS, and that is what the business plan addresses, or should
More...

I have a target and I get it almost every fucking day. A goal is just that..a goal. when either my goal is reached or my daily stop loss is hit I'm out-end of story. I suppose I could not "artificially limit" myself but statistically this is what works best for me.
 
Quote from sunggong:

Not really a good analogy IMO.

With a small account (~25k in my case), goal is to pick up loose changes dropped on the ground by those big boys, not necessarily go head-to-head against
More...

In general, I don't like having daily goals. It puts too much pressure on the trader. Some mornings you may make $250, some you may make $10 and be lucky to survive without a big loss. In any event, you cant squeeze something out of a dead lifeless market.

Cajun
 
I've read some of these posts. In my personal opinion $3500 is far too little to learn to trade futures. (I'm a little surprised that anyone would even let you trade with such a small account. Somewhere around 10K should be the absolute minimum. Even then, when you are learning, you are likely to blow out a 10K account. Definitely don't trade more than one contract until you are making consistent profits. This is just my personal opinion, and i know not all will agree, so no need to rebut.
 
Agreed. I have no doubt that a limit will be enforced eventually. Just like the $25,000 limit for stocks.

--Caj

Quote from piezoe:

I've read some of these posts. In my personal opinion $3500 is far too little to learn to trade futures. (I'm a little surprised that anyone would even let you trade with such a small account. Somewhere around 10K should be the absolute minimum. Even then, when you are learning, you are likely to blow out a 10K account. Definitely don't trade more than one contract until you are making consistent profits. This is just my personal opinion, and i know not all will agree, so no need to rebut.
More...
 
Quote from piezoe:

I've read some of these posts. In my personal opinion $3500 is far too little to learn to trade futures. (I'm a little surprised that anyone would even let you trade with such a small account. Somewhere around 10K should be the absolute minimum. Even then, when you are learning, you are likely to blow out a 10K account. Definitely don't trade more than one contract until you are making consistent profits. This is just my personal opinion, and i know not all will agree, so no need to rebut.
More...

I needed $20,000 to learn.
 
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