Honda/Toyata all-electric vehicles? TSLA competition...

[kmiklas]

Why haven't Honda and Toyota dropped an all-electric SUV? Something to compete with the TSLA 3? Battery technology is really the only sticking point, and it's hard to believe that Panasonic (Japanese-based) can't step up and make a EV battery.

This is puzzling... I smell a rat. Something is rotten in Denmark...

Are they waiting for the right time... waiting for TSLA to form the market... and then they'll attack like a lion taking down a wildebeest?

I just talked with a dealership here in the tri-state area. He said that there really isn't that much demand for EVs and Hybrids. Most just want ICE gas-powered vehicles?!

Is this all hype?

If there's one thing that could plunge TSLA, it would be an affordable all-electric Honda or Toyota. These are the quintessential brands of the masses.

 

[Specterx]

Why haven't Honda and Toyota dropped an all-electric SUV? Or something to compete with the TSLA 3?

Panasonic (Japanese-based) is capable of manufacturing batteries.

Are they waiting for the right time... waiting for TSLA to form the market... and then they'll attack like a lion taking down a wildebeest?

If there's one thing that could plunge TSLA, it would be an affordable all-electric Honda or Toyota. These are the quintessential brands of the masses.

I imagine they've concluded - rightly or wrongly - that manufacturing and selling a mass-market BEV doesn't currently make business sense. The Model 3 ASP is around $50k, which isn't a mass-market price point.

Note that Toyota sells the plug-in Prius for $30-35k - which is a far more affordable and practical alternative to the Veblen-good Teslas. It's far cheaper, you won't use any gas at all for day-to-day local driving (and consequently overall gas mileage is huge), and there's no issue whatsoever with range anxiety. Hybrids are also still useful to people who can't, or don't want to install a private charger at home.

Tesla has lots of hype, BS and hot air, but it's far from clear they have the right strategy in terms of offering useful products that make actual economic/business sense.

 

[kmiklas]

I imagine they've concluded - rightly or wrongly - that manufacturing and selling a mass-market BEV doesn't currently make business sense. The Model 3 ASP is around $50k, which isn't a mass-market price point.

Note that Toyota sells the plug-in Prius for $30-35k - which is a far more affordable and practical alternative to the Veblen-good Teslas. It's far cheaper, you won't use any gas at all for day-to-day local driving (and consequently overall gas mileage is huge), and there's no issue whatsoever with range anxiety. Hybrids are also still useful to people who can't, or don't want to install a private charger at home.

Tesla has lots of hype, BS and hot air, but it's far from clear they have the right strategy in terms of offering useful products that make actual economic/business sense.

That's a damn good comment. Blasphemy, methinks, and you may be burned at the stake if you keep talking like this... but a great response.

Let me gently remind you that TSLA is now valued at more that GM and F combined.

 

[S2007S]

I imagine they've concluded - rightly or wrongly - that manufacturing and selling a mass-market BEV doesn't currently make business sense. The Model 3 ASP is around $50k, which isn't a mass-market price point.

Note that Toyota sells the plug-in Prius for $30-35k - which is a far more affordable and practical alternative to the Veblen-good Teslas. It's far cheaper, you won't use any gas at all for day-to-day local driving (and consequently overall gas mileage is huge), and there's no issue whatsoever with range anxiety. Hybrids are also still useful to people who can't, or don't want to install a private charger at home.

Tesla has lots of hype, BS and hot air, but it's far from clear they have the right strategy in terms of offering useful products that make actual economic/business sense.

Tesla is alot of hype especially for the bottom model 3 which I still dont understand why people gravitate towards this car at the price point they sell it for..there is no cost savings gas wise when driving a tesla due to the premium paid for the car itself.

 

[Bum]

Why haven't Honda and Toyota dropped an all-electric SUV? Something to compete with the TSLA 3? Battery technology is really the only sticking point, and it's hard to believe that Panasonic (Japanese-based) can't step up and make a EV battery.

This is puzzling... I smell a rat. Something is rotten in Denmark...

Are they waiting for the right time... waiting for TSLA to form the market... and then they'll attack like a lion taking down a wildebeest?

I just talked with a dealership here in the tri-state area. He said that there really isn't that much demand for EVs and Hybrids. Most just want ICE gas-powered vehicles?!

Is this all hype?

If there's one thing that could plunge TSLA, it would be an affordable all-electric Honda or Toyota. These are the quintessential brands of the masses.

You'll get a pretty biased opinion from a dealership.
TSLA is bypassing the dealership model and using online sales only. No haggling with a dealership on price. Same for everyone. That's business away from dealerships so they're not too happy with TSLA.
ICE was in denial about EVs but they're starting to change their tune. Many more EVs announced by the major ICE manufacturers.

I've been following the EVs for a while and if I were to buy one it would be a TSLA. Wouldn't even look at another brand right now. Soooo much better tech than most other EVs. The number of years of experience of TSLA is a big advantage IMO. Comparable EVs from other manufacturers are more expensive.

 

[Turveyd]

Well for the same vehicle a EV is approx twice the price for starters, then there is the charging issue and range, then the batterys need replacing every X miles of use at £6K - £12K time, the depreciation on EV's is huge aswell.

Then not enough capacity in the grids to fast charge millions of cars every night.

Then the Rare Earth magnets ( Rare, it's in the name ) the Copper for the windings and the Lithium for the batteries are already in short supply with only 0.1% cars on the road replaced ( including old still in service cars ) ( can be recycles atleast but costly to do so Lithium wise )

Shame, they drive great, fast, instant torque from a standing start, no clutch or gearbox issues, silent much less maintance / to go wrong.

EV's will imho stay as luxury cars for the richer people.

Mild Hybrids ie using starter motor (improved) for regenerative braking and low speed and helping pull off with a small batter pack make sense and likely where this will go.

Citreon had a Air system regenerative braking, much better, no lithium, using a compressor and 2 air tanks 1 high pressure 1 low pressure sadly, everyone going batteries

 

[Cuddles]

The Japanese build for 100k mile life expectancy at a minimum & are notoriously conservative in releasing new tech. Both Toyota & Honda bet the farm on hydrogen electric vehicles, not batteries. so they did not pursue battery electrics until much later than other OEMs.

In any case:

 

[Baron]

Why haven't Honda and Toyota dropped an all-electric SUV?

Because neither of those companies have a proprietary high-speed charging network in place, which is pretty much a requirement at this stage of the game. You can't just take an average EV and plug it into a Tesla supercharger. It doesn't work like that.

Furthermore, think about all the apartment complexes, condos, townhouses, and other shared housing in this country. Where are all those people going to charge their Honda and Toyota EV cars if even a fraction of them bought one today? On the one or two EV chargers per complex? I paid $3,600 to have a Tesla high-speed wall charger installed in my garage because I owned a single-family home and wanted the convenience of being able to charge my car within a few hours at my convenience. That wouldn't even be an option for the average Honda or Toyota EV owner in a shared housing complex.

So there's a lot more to the game than these manufacturers just cranking out mass-market EVs.

 

[Cuddles]

Because neither of those companies have a proprietary high-speed charging network in place, which is pretty much a requirement at this stage of the game. You can't just take an average EV and plug it into a Tesla supercharger. It doesn't work like that.

Furthermore, think about all the apartment complexes, condos, townhouses, and other shared housing in this country. Where are all those people going to charge their Honda and Toyota EV cars if even a fraction of them bought one today? On the one or two EV chargers per complex? I paid $3,600 to have a Tesla high-speed wall charger installed in my garage because I owned a single-family home and wanted the convenience of being able to charge my car within a few hours at my convenience. That wouldn't even be an option for the average Honda or Toyota EV owner in a shared housing complex.

So there's a lot more to the game than these manufacturers just cranking out mass-market EVs.

Your first argument is correct, you can't use an apple cable on an android after all, and Tesla's infrastructure is there. It doesn't mean that other OEMs can't have their batteries take a quick charge, just not many of those universal quick chargers around.

Your second argument just tells me that Tesla is a niche product which home owners can enjoy, meaning renters would have the same charging issues if they bought a Tesla, which I suppose is a "plus" to the Tesla business model.

I guess re-reading it all, perhaps those were precisely your points?

 

[Baron]

I guess re-reading it all, perhaps those were precisely your points?

You got it.