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Hold Brothers $4 Million Manipulative Trading Case
- Thread starter Options12
- Start date
Quote from propseeker:
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why don't you think about and try and answer to yourself some of the questions i raised?
what tools does someone have in our markets to ensure market makers are quoting fairly and competitively? what tools do we have to ask for a better price?
I don't understand your argument here. True market makers have legal responsibilities to buy stock when no one else will and sell when no one else will don't they? So they are given certain edges (subject to rules) like setting the spread.
HFT's step in front of market makers to make some of their trades on the theory that they provide liquidity. But they have no such rules forcing trades at inopportune times and can shut off if they want at any time.
It is my understanding that the HFTs or props make money (kind of currently at least) guaranteed by their methodology, but the market makers require volume to make a good living and so there is pressure on them to make a fair market because their trades are not necessarily millisecond scalps.
So your tool is to not trade volume and thus force the market makers to shift their price or lose their jobs in the long run. Is my reasoning incorrect?
Where did you learn about market microstructure?
Quote from brokerboy:
i am not debating what people do. its like if you walked into a store with a toy gun that looked real and you asked for a package of free cigarettes. when doing that you did not point the gun, or say you would use the gun, you just made it noticeable. is that legal?
Problem i see with the posters who don't understand.Exploiting is illegal. They might have learned the game the wrong way. Sucks for them, the rules will ban them from the game eventually
Quote from propseeker:
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this happened to hold a couple of years ago. one of their russian subsidiaries spoofed outrageous size on an etf. they got instantly stuffed, turned off their computers, and were never heard from again. hold spent the rest of the day liquidating that position and ended up eating about million on that trade.
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Interesting comment. Do you have any reference for me to research this further?
Posting false liquidity HFT orders can be taken out as well. The market evolves as others learn the tricks. By the way there are lots of edges hinted at in this thread.
I was delighted to read about Royal Bank of Canada designing Thor. They told us what they are doing. I have no doubt other firms have similar toys. (google putting the hammer to high frequency trading)
I would agree with trader pro - more time thinking on what is going on would help traders compete by being smarter about the games being played by everyone.
I was delighted to read about Royal Bank of Canada designing Thor. They told us what they are doing. I have no doubt other firms have similar toys. (google putting the hammer to high frequency trading)
I would agree with trader pro - more time thinking on what is going on would help traders compete by being smarter about the games being played by everyone.
You're a market maker if you day trade.
Are you intraday scalping? Then you are a market maker.
What makes a market maker? A dual-sided quote.
You put out a dual-sided quote if you are day trading; ie a OCO with a entry, target and stop price.
:eek: :eek:
Are you intraday scalping? Then you are a market maker.
What makes a market maker? A dual-sided quote.
You put out a dual-sided quote if you are day trading; ie a OCO with a entry, target and stop price.
:eek: :eek:
Quote from StarDust9182:
I don't understand your argument here. True market makers have legal responsibilities to buy stock when no one else will and sell when no one else will don't they? So they are given certain edges (subject to rules) like setting the spread.
HFT's step in front of market makers to make some of their trades on the theory that they provide liquidity. But they have no such rules forcing trades at inopportune times and can shut off if they want at any time.
It is my understanding that the HFTs or props make money (kind of currently at least) guaranteed by their methodology, but the market makers require volume to make a good living and so there is pressure on them to make a fair market because their trades are not necessarily millisecond scalps.
So your tool is to not trade volume and thus force the market makers to shift their price or lose their jobs in the long run. Is my reasoning incorrect?
Where did you learn about market microstructure?
this is just silly now. i am getting curious did you ever take a 7 or 55? you totally don't know what a market maker is at all.
Quote from JuniorCTA:
You're a market maker if you day trade.
Are you intraday scalping? Then you are a market maker.
What makes a market maker? A dual-sided quote.
You put out a dual-sided quote if you are day trading; ie a OCO with a entry, target and stop price.
:eek: :eek:
Quote from brokerboy:
i am not debating what people do. its like if you walked into a store with a toy gun that looked real and you asked for a package of free cigarettes. when doing that you did not point the gun, or say you would use the gun, you just made it noticeable. is that legal?
i didn't infer you were debating what people do. i was critiquing your assessment of it.