hmm.no edges in the markets

[marketsurfer]

Quote from wrbtrader:

You have poor English comprehension skills.

*****
I've been very clear in that I'm asking him questions about why he's talking to day traders and scalpers when he's already a profitable trader via long term trading. In addition, I've been very clear that there are other edges besides a trade method. To make that point stronger, I complimented him about his edge involving "position size management".
*****

If the above implies that I have the ability to predict short term market movements. I really don't know how to spell it out in a different way so that someone like you can understand nor do I care if you understand the above commentary.

You drunk this morning ?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

All that was required was a simple yes or no. But instead you attack.
And you think you can "sneak in" certain suggestions about your magical ability without being called out on it. That doesn't work here-- you are not preaching to the choir. May I suggest that you knock off the personal attacks and own up to your suggestion.

By suggesting that the poster can't predict short term price moves, therefore is unsuccessful suggests that you can since you claim short term trading success.

Just own up to your faulty core beliefs it will help you in the markets and life.

surf

 

[AaronAllen]

Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

This is the kind of nonsense you read about in trading psychology books.

"I WOULD GIVE U AN EDGE BUT..."

Demonstrate a quantifiable, profitable system and you will have an endless supply of students.

Most traders have not even gotten to the point where they have a profitable system in the first place. Just because some "guru" says something is profitable doesn't mean it is, and when it doesn't work it doesn't mean it's the student's fault.

Aw I hurt your feelings. Sorry to set it to you straight.

I would NOT give you an edge. You've had numerous quantifiable systems that have hit you over the head yet you still don't believe so don't give me that bullshit. You want it handed to you proved and tested on a silver plate.

right in this website there are heaps of trading systems but you won't do the work required to appreciate

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from IronFist:

Totally agree.

I have been involved with martial arts for much of my life. There are a lot of "gurus" in the martial arts world, too. For example, there are people who claim to have the ability to knock people out without touching them, to move objects without touching them, to extinguish a candle flame with a punch from 5 feet away behind a piece of glass, etc.

All of these people will only demonstrate their skills in their own conditions and usually only on their own brainwashed students.

Amazingly, when they try them on outside people, news reporters, and other martial artists, they don't work.

Yet there are people who pay these scammers to learn their secret skills.

If someone could *actually* knock someone out without touching them, I mean in real conditions, they would become the most sought after teacher in the world. People would travel from all over to learn. Professional fighters would hire them to learn their style. James Randi would pay them $1,000,000 for successfully demonstrating the ability under controlled conditions.

Of course, none of these guys ever seem to demonstrate their abilities under controlled conditions. The few that have tried have obviously failed. There are a few vids of this on YouTube.

And of course, they always have excuses for why they didn't work.

It's kind of like how trading "gurus" always have excuses for why their systems aren't profitable, why they won't make real time calls, or why they won't give precise answers.

There are always suckers willing to learn without proof. This is who both the fake martial arts masters and trading "gurus" profit from.

The onus of proof is on the person making the claim.

After the fact charts are not proof.

Vague answers are not proof.

"Knocking out" your own receptive student without touching him is not proof.

If someone were to demonstrate proof, they would have more students than they knew what to do with.

Of course, another excuse the "masters" give is that they don't want the fame so that's why they don't demonstrate their skills publicly. Lol.

Well stated.

They also revert to personal attacks when confronted with their own words. None of these folks would dare exposé themselves in a combine like environment --- it just isn't good for their psyche or their business.

Crank--- someone who is deluded but doesn't know it, means well by trying to teach others.

Charlatan-- someone who is aware they are selling snakeoil but do it anyway for the fame or money.


surf

 

[AaronAllen]

Quote from IronFist:

There are a lot of "gurus" in the martial arts world, too. For example, there are people who claim to have the ability to knock people out without touching them, to move objects without touching them, to extinguish a candle flame with a punch from 5 feet away behind a piece of glass, etc.

cool ive been fighting all my life too and im not talking about following gurus im talking about getting down and doing the stuff in your own time, carving out your own style. u know what i mean

edit: u take a little from this guy a little from the other guy.

 

[wrbtrader]

Quote from marketsurfer:

And you think you can "sneak in" certain suggestions about your magical ability without being called out on it. That doesn't work here-- you are not preaching to the choir. May I suggest that you knock off the personal attacks and own up to your suggestion.

By suggesting that the poster can't predict short term price moves, therefore is unsuccessful suggests that you can since you claim short term trading success.

Just own up to your faulty core beliefs it will help you in the markets and life.

surf

The fact remains, you still have poor English comprehension skills. I'll repeat my statement differently this time. Let me know what is it that I am implying.

*****
He's already a profitable long term trader. In contrast, he's looking for something and he's trying to find it via discussion with day traders and scalpers. There are other edges beyond a trade method. He has openly stated he has and edge involving his "position size management". Congrats on such because most traders underestimate the importance of "position size management"
*****

You now said the above is a personal attack to go along with saying I'm implying that I can predict short term price direction.

What type of alcohol are you drinking this morning ???

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[1a2b3cppp]

Quote from wrbtrader:

Ok.

Yet, your profits are via long term trading based upon the information you posted in your trade journals. Therefore, why not concentrate on discussions with "long term traders" or "swing traders" to help you with identifying market direction in comparison to having such discussions with day traders or scalpers.

Regardless, you're a profitable trader regardless to your inability to predict market direction...you're obvious doing such to be a profitable long term trader.

Good questions. Do you know any profitable "long term traders" or "swing traders" I could talk to?

Regarding day trading, it seems to me that if price is predictable, it would be on a shorter term using temporary imbalances that may be visible on the DOM. I made a DOM thread but it got filled up with nonsense from a few posters who like to write a lot without saying anything.

I have stated before that all non-random trading is predicting because you are predicting that price will go in your direction. Even the way I trade is predicting. I am predicting that price will go back up before it goes to zero. I don't know when, but I am predicting it will happen at some point.

By the way, I do remember you saying a few times in different threads that one of your edges is "position size management". Congrats on that because its an area of trading most traders underestimate.

I just meant that I don't use margin and I don't use so much size that I run the risk of blowing out. That's why everyone says averaging down is bad, btw, is because people do too much too soon and blow their accounts. Since I do not know where price is going to go, I have to start small. That's also a limitation of my style of trading. If price only retraces a little bit before going up, I won't make very much money because I'll only have a small position. And if price retraces and I open a position and then price chops around for days/weeks/months, I sit on drawdown waiting for it to go back up, or to go down further so I can buy more.

Anyways, it would seem like your looking for a automated or mechanical method even though most of those day traders and scalpers you've been trying to learn about price action trading are discretionary traders. I think that conflict of what you want versus those you talk too has been a thorn in the butt for you.

I'm looking for a profitable method that someone can teach. I am not interested in learning vague concepts that fill up long threads with a bunch of "great post" replies when nothing was actually said that is helpful in real time.

I am not looking for someone to give away their method if it is sized based. For example, there may be arbitrage methods that are size-limited and a trader wants to keep them all to himself because if more people found out about it that would mean less profit for him. Totally understandable! I wouldn't give that away, either!

But with all the talk of "trends," and TA, you'd think someone, somewhere would've shown proof that what they do works. I mean come on, if "trend trading" is actually an edge (and I strongly suspect that it is not, but that's another topic), it's not going to disappear if more people start doing it. Can you imagine market makers going "oh my gosh! All those retail traders understand the trend now! We need to make the S&P500 go down instead of up like it's supposed to!"

edit - NoDoji, I am specifically not referring to you in that last paragraph.

 

[1a2b3cppp]

Quote from AaronAllen:

Aw I hurt your feelings. Sorry to set it to you straight.

I would NOT give you an edge.

I don't think you have an edge, anyway. Did I miss your journal where you post real time calls?

You've had numerous quantifiable systems that have hit you over the head yet you still don't believe so don't give me that bullshit.

I have? I've seen a bunch that didn't work. What quantifiable systems have I been hit over the head with?

You want it handed to you proved and tested on a silver plate.

Yes. As IronFist said, the onus of proof is on the person making the claim. Here is a list of scammy vendors. Should the student assume those systems are profitable just because they say they are?

right in this website there are heaps of trading systems but you won't do the work required to appreciate

My 51% for the first 5 years offer stands for you, too.

 

[1a2b3cppp]

Quote from IronFist:

If someone could *actually* knock someone out without touching them, I mean in real conditions, they would become the most sought after teacher in the world. People would travel from all over to learn. Professional fighters would hire them to learn their style. James Randi would pay them $1,000,000 for successfully demonstrating the ability under controlled conditions.

Being able to knock someone out without touching them would be quite an "edge" for a fighter!

 

[igotcash]

trend trading is, of course, totally wrong at the top and the bottom. and risk/reward buying near the eventual top is obviously not good, in hindsight. so it makes no sense to buy an uptrend when the trend is really moving. makes it only good in hindsight. so then traders try to buy before the move, or when they think the move starts. however, that is more range trading with guesswork. so then it comes down to the middle of the trend, which is extremely fast and missed by many.

I can show 1000 charts of how easy a trend looks. but it only matters if you trade it.

and then a stock goes from 10 to 100 and then 400. and the same trend trader gets in at 18 and sells at 21.50.

 

[IronFist]

Quote from marketsurfer:

Well stated.

They also revert to personal attacks when confronted with their own words. None of these folks would dare exposé themselves in a combine like environment --- it just isn't good for their psyche or their business.

Very true. You see that on some martial arts forums, too.

Crank--- someone who is deluded but doesn't know it, means well by trying to teach others.

Charlatan-- someone who is aware they are selling snakeoil but do it anyway for the fame or money.

Thank you for defining "crank." I had figured there were people out there who, through their own teacher's lies, actually believed they had those abilities, and who actually think they are teaching them to others, but I didn't know if there was a word for it. You can't be mad at those people because they are doing what they think is right (although they could've tested it against someone else in the meantime, you know, just to make sure). You actually feel bad for these people when they find out the truth because it's like, they wasted so many years on something they were mislead into thinking was real.