Hillary finished

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Maverickz:

I find it funny that since Bush is republican and people think he is a horrible president that they don't want John McCain in the White House b/c he is also a republican. Thats like saying Osama and Obama are both Muslim and thus both terrorists. It's just not true.

You have to look at the candidates individual qualifications and viewpoints and less about which party they belong to. Which candidate shares your viewpoints on the economy, abortion, crime and punishment, the war in Iraq, family values, etc.? Thats who you should vote for regardless of political affiliation.

ANYONE that votes for someone based on how they look, their skin color, their sex, or any other superficial crap like that is a moron that deserves to have their voting rights removed.

Your third paragraph is right on the mark.

As for the rest of your post, you should note that Senator McCain plans to continue certain of GWB's policies. The Iraq war for one, and the continued tax cuts during such war. If I am not mistaken, no president in US history has ever cut taxes during a war. (I could be wrong; you may wish to look it up.) I am not prepared to credit GWB with genius in straying from the pack on this one. And so, as nice a guy as McCain may be, his willingness to follow in the footseps of an incompetent on such key issues is not encouraging.

 

[kut2k2]

Quote from MarketMasher:

Obama is MUSLIM?? That Rev Wright guy who was his pastor is MUSLIM???!!

It's the age-old tactic of making up shit about your political opponent, which the Repubs have taken to a whole new level. Apparently just criticizing actual flaws is never enough, they have to keep making shit up that isn't close to being true. Notice how every single Democratic presidential nominee since 1976 is suddenly labeled by Repubs as "the most liberal person in the Democrat [sic] party", mountains of evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from kut2k2:

It's the age-old tactic of making up shit about your political opponent, which the Repups have taken to a whole new level. Apparently just criticizing actual flaws is never enough, they have to keep making shit up that isn't close to being true. Notice how every single Democratic presidential nominee since 1976 is suddenly labeled by Repubs as "the most liberal person in the Democratic party", mountains of evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

Exactly. The stuff they made up about Gore and Kerry during their respective runs for president is downright mind-numbing. Although I knew some of the stuff, Franken chronicles the details, both the facts and fabrications, in their entirety in his two books that I had mentioned earlier in this thread. What the GOP had done should be regarded as criminal. I will say again that there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone else's fundamental principles of government. But to deceive, lie and distort in the manner that the Republicans did is nothing short of repugnant.

 

[IV_Trader]

Quote from gnome:

Sounds like we CAN'T... LOL!

I just HATE the DemoCrapic party and everything it stands for. I'd always thought the RepubliClowns to be the "lesser of evils"... that is, until Bush II. I believe he's done MASSIVE damage to America and should go down in history as one of the worst presidents of all time.

Both the RepublClowns and DemoCraps are TRAGIC choices for America...

agree 100%

 

[Maverickz]

Quote from MarketMasher:

Obama is MUSLIM?? That Rev Wright guy who was his pastor is MUSLIM???!!

1. He was born and raised Muslim but has converted over Church of Christ

2. I'm NOT saying that since he was born and raised a Muslim that it means he is a terrorist. Nor am I saying that b/c John Mc is a republican he must be a bad president either. In fact I was saying that trying to make EITHER assumption would be WRONG.

 

[Techclerk]

Quote from Maverickz:

I
You have to look at the candidates individual qualifications and viewpoints and less about which party they belong to. Which candidate shares your viewpoints on the economy, abortion, crime and punishment, the war in Iraq, family values, etc.? Thats who you should vote for regardless of political affiliation.

Maybe you could help me. I don't see a candidate who believes what I think. I don't know where I fit on the spectrum. Am I liberal or conservative? Am I Democrat or Republican?

Who is a candidate or party that believes these ideas? I have more ideas, but I never hear anybody say these things. If I hear anything close, then the 2 major parties bring out Tonya Harding's Playbook and destroy the candidate.

-Social Security should be grandfathered for anyone born after a certain date. Let that generation start fresh without inheriting this failed program. Let them make their own equivalent from scratch.

-The Federal government should discontinue issuing debt for 30 years or until the current debt is paid back (whichever is first)

-The historical data from the IRS should be used to model different types of taxation theories. Then the IRS should be abolished and replaced by a system that has been proven to pay the bills. We pay taxes once, not when we earn, save, spend and die with money.

-Socialized medicine will ultimately fail because it eventually gives the government a financial incentive to let you suffer and die. You cannot legislate a person's natural death any more than you can legislate, regulate and tax the changing temperature of the sun.

-Gay marriage is simply corporate welfare for hetero divorce attorneys. Good luck with that.

-Legalizing marijuana is not a fight worth fighting, BUT if it is legalized it should not have a "Sin Tax" because this tax gives the government a financial incentive to keep everybody stoned all the time.

-There should always be a 3rd podium in debates available for the strongest non-repub or democrat.

 

[TGregg]

Quote from Techclerk:

-The historical data from the IRS should be used to model different types of taxation theories. Then the IRS should be abolished and replaced by a system that has been proven to pay the bills. We pay taxes once, not when we earn, save, spend and die with money.

-There should always be a 3rd podium in debates available for the strongest non-repub or democrat.

Neither of these will be supported by either major political party. Politicians earn a lot of love and money from lobbyists by fooling around with the tax code. And one of the few things that both parties agree on is that there shouldn't be more than two major parties. So they'll project a united front against anything that breaks their "stereopoly".

 

[Techclerk]

Quote from TGregg:

... And one of the few things that both parties agree on is that there shouldn't be more than two major parties. So they'll project a united front against anything that breaks their "stereopoly".

I think the vulnerability of the stereopoly is the historical fact that political parties die. This creates room for a new 2nd party to emerge.

Maybe instead of voting for the best liar who tells me what I want to hear or voting for an independent candidate who is known to not have a chance, I will vote in the direction that can best accelerate the end of the other major party. I'd live in a one party system for a short time if this means a new major party can be born.

 

[Maverickz]

Quote from TGregg:

Neither of these will be supported by either major political party. Politicians earn a lot of love and money from lobbyists by fooling around with the tax code. And one of the few things that both parties agree on is that there shouldn't be more than two major parties. So they'll project a united front against anything that breaks their "stereopoly".

Political parties are the bane of the US government. Both sides only care about furthering their parties power while minimizing the other party.

What is sad is that george Washington warned us about this very problem way back in 1796 when he said the following in his farewell address:

Quote from George Washington's Farewell Address:

I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the state, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but in those of the popular form it is seen in its greatest rankness and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual, and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation on the ruins of public liberty.

 

[ratboy88]

Quote from Maverickz:

Political parties are the bane of the US government. Both sides only care about furthering their parties power while minimizing the other party.

What is sad is that george Washington warned us about this very problem way back in 1796 when he said the following in his farewell address:

the right/left paradigm is a joke.. both parties are socialists. .... next