High School Trader Looking to Get Pretty Serious With Trading

[Insurinator]

An MBA in finance is great if you likely want to be a desk jockey at a bank. If you really want to trade, any money that is going to be used to finance a MBA is much better used getting yourself a successful 1 - 2 year trading log and getting into a prop firm to gain insight from other successful traders.

A MBA in anything really won't teach anyone shit about trading. Where as hands on experience with a successful mentor is invaluable.

 

[Mike805]

Quote from rgilbert93:

i've gotten laid so everyone can quit insinuating i haven't

yeah i don't really WANT to get a business degree. what are quantatives in a nutshell?

LOL... good. It gets better as you get older

Quantitative trading involves a bit of everything, but the consistent themes are the following:

- Advanced statistics (typically an upper division engineering/science cirriculum - won't see it as a Business major).

- Stochiastic Calculus (graduate level finance or undergrad engineering - won't see it as a Business major).

- Partial Differential Equations (engineering/science undergrad, graduate finance program - won't see it as a Business major)

- Pricing/Valuation Models - RAPM, CAPM, BS (graduate finance cirriculum)

- Volatility Modeling - GARCH (graduate finance cirriculum)


Those are the starting points... there's a ton out there but I would say every "quant" is somewhat knowledgeable of the above.

As you can see, an undergrad business degree provides you with almost nothing of substance when it comes to the above topics either in preparation or knowledge.

Also remember that to get into a good graduate program (finance or engineering), you need a *very strong* undergrad major + decent grades.

If I were you (and I'm biased because its what I did), I would do the follwing:

1. B.S. Engineering (Electrical being my personal favorite)

2. M.S. Engineering ( http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/MFE/ )
OR PhD Finance.

Then go searching for a job. If your grades are good and you can present yourself, you'll achieve all your financial goals and then some...

Mike

 

[rgilbert93]

Quote from Mike805:

LOL... good. It gets better as you get older

Quantitative trading involves a bit of everything, but the consistent themes are the following:

- Advanced statistics (typically an upper division engineering/science cirriculum - won't see it as a Business major).

- Stochiastic Calculus (graduate level finance or undergrad engineering - won't see it as a Business major).

- Partial Differential Equations (engineering/science undergrad, graduate finance program - won't see it as a Business major)

- Pricing/Valuation Models - RAPM, CAPM, BS (graduate finance cirriculum)

- Volatility Modeling - GARCH (graduate finance cirriculum)


Those are the starting points... there's a ton out there but I would say every "quant" is somewhat knowledgeable of the above.

As you can see, an undergrad business degree provides you with almost nothing of substance when it comes to the above topics either in preparation or knowledge.

Also remember that to get into a good graduate program (finance or engineering), you need a *very strong* undergrad major + decent grades.

If I were you (and I'm biased because its what I did), I would do the follwing:

1. B.S. Engineering (Electrical being my personal favorite)

2. M.S. Engineering ( http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/MFE/ )
OR PhD Finance.

Then go searching for a job. If your grades are good and you can present yourself, you'll achieve all your financial goals and then some...

Mike

Thanks I really appreciate the advice. I just assumed business was best for trading, now I realize that it's quite a ridiculous assumption.

Yeah now just to find a good in state school for all of this. (NC) with a good bachelor's of the major you mentioned with a good 3.8-4.0 gpa, can you give me a rough estimate of the demand for a person of that experience and their starting pay? I'd probably plan on going to work then getting my master's as I worked. I don't know if this is a good idea or not. i know this isn't 20 questions but I'd really appreciate the help.

 

[Mike805]

Quote from rgilbert93:

Thanks I really appreciate the advice. I just assumed business was best for trading, now I realize that it's quite a ridiculous assumption.

Yeah now just to find a good in state school for all of this. (NC) with a good bachelor's of the major you mentioned with a good 3.8-4.0 gpa, can you give me a rough estimate of the demand for a person of that experience and their starting pay? I'd probably plan on going to work then getting my master's as I worked. I don't know if this is a good idea or not. i know this isn't 20 questions but I'd really appreciate the help.

You ought to shoot a little higher than a state school - not because of the quality, but due to the lack of pertinent programs in many state schools when compared to universitys. Also, you won't find any state schools in the top academic listings. Employers, while not overtly school name conscious, will have a pool of applicants to choose from. A good school name (even for undergrad) will many times make a difference. Another way to look at it: your competition will likely have the school name and hence an advantage.

That said, off the top of my head, UNC and Wake Forest have good programs in NC.

All degrees are definetly not the same. An engineering degree automatically opens doors for you in nearly all high paying fields. Its not only because of the difficulty of the material (it is difficult), but because the engineering cirriuculum is demanding and challenging both in terms of time and commitment - completeting such a cirriculum, even with average grades, means a lot more than completing a pyschology or business major with straight A's. A Master's seperates you even further as most good engineering graduate programs only take the top 10% of the undergrad class.

Careerwise, well there's a couple of paths you can take - its really best to experiment a bit and find out what suits you while you're young. Career changes are slightly more difficult as you get older. But, that said, you'll have a hard time getting a decent quant role without a Masters in either engineering, computer science or finance. Its becuase again, the applicant pool has this education as well, i.e. the competition is stiff.

Starting pay for an MSc. fresh off the boat is anywhere from 70k-120k (+bonus if you do well), and will likely be located in SF, Chicago or NY, possibly London. So locationally you'll be fairly limited to those financial hubs. Quality of life is always an issue, you'll be working your butt off for the first few years no matter what...

Demand for highly educated, quality people is always high... what you'll find out after some experience is the "squeaky wheel" effect. You're always going to hear the hard luck stories from some of the lower quality employees. The good ones never have problems finding work hence you won't find em' complaining about the job market even in a recession. The analogy being, there might be 4 wheels working, but you only notice the one making all the noise...

http://www.quantfinancejobs.com/

Here are some salary stats from the best MFE program in the country:

http://mfe.haas.berkeley.edu/employ_2009.html

Average First-year Compensation: $128,408
Median First Year Compensation: $93,000
Average First-year Bonus: $36,166
Median First Year Bonus: $10,500
Average First-year Base Salary: $95,742
Median First Year Base Salary: $85,000

 

[rgilbert93]

Quote from Mike805:

You ought to shoot a little higher than a state school - not because of the quality, but due to the lack of pertinent programs in many state schools when compared to universitys. Also, you won't find any state schools in the top academic listings. Employers, while not overtly school name conscious, will have a pool of applicants to choose from. A good school name (even for undergrad) will many times make a difference. Another way to look at it: your competition will likely have the school name and hence an advantage.

That said, off the top of my head, UNC and Wake Forest have good programs in NC.

All degrees are definetly not the same. An engineering degree automatically opens doors for you in nearly all high paying fields. Its not only because of the difficulty of the material (it is difficult), but because the engineering cirriuculum is demanding and challenging both in terms of time and commitment - completeting such a cirriculum, even with average grades, means a lot more than completing a pyschology or business major with straight A's. A Master's seperates you even further as most good engineering graduate programs only take the top 10% of the undergrad class.

Careerwise, well there's a couple of paths you can take - its really best to experiment a bit and find out what suits you while you're young. Career changes are slightly more difficult as you get older. But, that said, you'll have a hard time getting a decent quant role without a Masters in either engineering, computer science or finance. Its becuase again, the applicant pool has this education as well, i.e. the competition is stiff.

Starting pay for an MSc. fresh off the boat is anywhere from 70k-120k (+bonus if you do well), and will likely be located in SF, Chicago or NY, possibly London. So locationally you'll be fairly limited to those financial hubs. Quality of life is always an issue, you'll be working your butt off for the first few years no matter what...

Demand for highly educated, quality people is always high... what you'll find out after some experience is the "squeaky wheel" effect. You're always going to hear the hard luck stories from some of the lower quality employees. The good ones never have problems finding work hence you won't find em' complaining about the job market even in a recession. The analogy being, there might be 4 wheels working, but you only notice the one making all the noise...

http://www.quantfinancejobs.com/

Here are some salary stats from the best MFE program in the country:

http://mfe.haas.berkeley.edu/employ_2009.html

Average First-year Compensation: $128,408
Median First Year Compensation: $93,000
Average First-year Bonus: $36,166
Median First Year Bonus: $10,500
Average First-year Base Salary: $95,742
Median First Year Base Salary: $85,000

State school was a typo. I'm pretty sure I want to go to UNCW. What is engineering exactly, or the type associated with trading?