hiding your trades

Zr1Trader · Jul 25, 2011

Quote from joneog:

This gunning for your stops thing is a bunch of BS imo. Think of how many contracts someone would have to trade to push the market into a stop. Now think how big the size of that stop probably is. Why would anyone trade 100s or 1000s of lots to trigger a 1,2,3 etc lot stop?

+1

Larry williams has noted many times having 100's and/or 1000's of lots on and the market getting within 1 tick of his stops without triggering them. These people thinking the market or brokers are out to get them are over analytical . Over-analytical types stop, think, and freeze when the market moves against them while watching like a deer in headlights instead of getting the eff out.

bone · Jul 25, 2011

You could always switch brokers frequently - kinda like changing the code wheels on a regular basis for the enigma machine.

Personally, I don't think you have much to worry about if you are trading your own account. If you are prop, then there are reasons for caution IMO.

heech · Jul 25, 2011

Why do you care?

First off, I don't think it actually happens. Second of all, assume its happening... So what? How is it affecting your pnl for someone to follow your trades? (Frankly I love it when people move the market in the direction I just entered).

There's a reason regulators are concerned about front-running, but has no rules restricting trade "following".

trend2009 · Jul 26, 2011

I think one reason the OP fears is that his strategy may get reverse engineered.

Quote from heech:

Why do you care?

First off, I don't think it actually happens. Second of all, assume its happening... So what? How is it affecting your pnl for someone to follow your trades? (Frankly I love it when people move the market in the direction I just entered).

There's a reason regulators are concerned about front-running, but has no rules restricting trade "following".

trend2009 · Jul 26, 2011

here are two links:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220599&highlight=protect

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146405&highlight=protect

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=219511

Quote from spike500:

I would like to hide my positions so that my brokers don't know my track record and to prevent that they piggyback my trades.
Can i open positions with one broker and close them with another broker?
I'm a daytrader in Eminis.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Spike

PitchBlack · Jul 26, 2011

I place orders electronically in the systemof my broker. Does he send them in the market (CME for Eminis S&P)? Or are there still other parties who interfere? I would like to be the last person who can see what I exactly do. I suppose that CME does not follow traders and only match the bids and the offers.
Logic conclusion would be: can I become myself this last person? Do I have to become a broker myself? Or lease a seat?

Pekelo · Jul 26, 2011

Quote from trend2009:

I think one reason the OP fears is that his strategy may get reverse engineered.

That might be a valid concern, but using MORE brokers just increases that risk.

And even if that happens, so what? Unless his strategy works in thinly traded markets (with eminis, that is not the case), any other trades coming in with his trades just moves the market his way...

Just out of curiosity, what is the OP's P/L annually? It has to be excellent to be considered copy worthy....

trend2009 · Jul 26, 2011

I do not think leasing a seat would protect you anyway except it might save commissions depending on the number of lots you trade.

if you become a broker yourself, you remove one middleman who could see your trades. but still, you have to clear your trades via a clearing house.

i still think the best is to use two brokers. you may open another account in your parent's name. in that way, there is no restriction on opening and closing in different accounts. I have no idea if you could open and close in two broker accounts of the same person. you may have a try.

Quote from spike500:

I place orders electronically in the systemof my broker. Does he send them in the market (CME for Eminis S&P)? Or are there still other parties who interfere? I would like to be the last person who can see what I exactly do. I suppose that CME does not follow traders and only match the bids and the offers.
Logic conclusion would be: can I become myself this last person? Do I have to become a broker myself? Or lease a seat?

eudaemon · Jul 26, 2011

Quote from spike500:

I place orders electronically in the systemof my broker. Does he send them in the market (CME for Eminis S&P)? Or are there still other parties who interfere? I would like to be the last person who can see what I exactly do. I suppose that CME does not follow traders and only match the bids and the offers.
Logic conclusion would be: can I become myself this last person? Do I have to become a broker myself? Or lease a seat?

You could become a clearing member. It will cost you several million, nothing for someone with a superlative edge like yourself.

Alternatively, you could buy the whole CME, and trade with yourself, for ultimate secrecy.

heech · Jul 26, 2011

Quote from trend2009:

I think one reason the OP fears is that his strategy may get reverse engineered.

Unless you are running a fully automated strategy with zero discretion, I don't see why that matters. Even then, so what? How much size is the broker going to have to run for him to affect your fills?