hey HFT scum, yeah, you. Watch this

NoFear,

There is nothing inherently wrong with lowering the minimum price move, but it has to be transparent to everyone and the lowest offer and highest bid have to be visible to everyone at the same time. I even advocate to make each and every single order in the market visible to all parties. If someone wants to move size let them do so, but with algos on their own end.

Quote from Nofear777:

Allowing everyone to subpenny is not the answer.

Getting rid of subpennying IS the answer.

I am baffled that some of you say the small retail investor gets better prices because someone subpennies .001 cents.

Most investors are FORCED into putting in market orders because they are being front ran by subpenny lots. You get rid of the subpenny privilege, then investors will get much better fills than the infinitesimal amount they save from a dark pool picking up their market order. They can start putting in limits. They can start adding REAL liquidity to markets .

SAVE THE MARKET! KILL SUBPENNY!
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Bob111, are you serious? You mean to say that if you're lifting offers using IB you can't get filled?? I find that hard to believe.

Trying to buy on the bid, you may see some of what you are talking about.
 
Quote from TraderZero:


The system is rigged against the small trader, not the small investor. Small investors are likely getting better fills than they otherwise would have through the use of IOI's and dark pools, they are clearly benefitting under the current system. Small traders, specifically small/independent traders that have historically made money by adding liquidity, are the one's being hurt.
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I disagree with this part of your comment (agree with the rest I did not quote).

Any trader that does not have access to putting in subpenny orders is hurt by this .

The retail trader does not get a better fill.

In actuality the retail trader does not get filled on his liquidity adding orders and is forced to go market , losing a few pennies in most cases.


That is the reality.

This market needs liquidity. Not subpennying.
 
You used to be able to sub penny on Nasdaq and they got rid of it FAST as it was hurting the hft scum, who pay Nasdaq to rig the game in their favor.
 
Quote from fullblotter:

for someone who has demonstrated knowledge of the issues you are being remarkably disingenuous. if saving the retail investor money by subpennying is so important then why stop there? why not let everyone do it? the more people allowed to subpenny the more main street will save. we don't need to argue to congress to close this loophole but to open it up so wide then everyone can do it.

the two tiered market is the problem. whatever the rules and regulations are mean nothing. they only have a detrimental impact when they are applied to a certain segment at the expense of others.

if you can't make an argument why we should keep a two tiered system then you have no argument.
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From what you said, you and I don't have an argument. This is a market structure issue that needs to be rectified. I agree, everyone should be able to enter orders at the same increments. Problem solved.
 
Quote from JMartinez:

Yep, that's rt!! How to beat them!!!

1. Use iso router, skips the dark.
2. Unusual high volume stocks for the day will make them chase it once the stock breaks.
3. Use dark only routing to figure out what side the algo is on.

Just a few. I'm sure others will post more.

:-)
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Please clarift how this helps me get filled on my limits .
 
Reread the quote, you and I agree. Traders, large and small are hurt by Sub-Pennying. And actually, I'll back-up a bit and say that anyone using limit orders to try to get filled on the bid (for purchases) and the offer (for sales) will get hurt as well.

Quote from Nofear777:

I disagree with this part of your comment (agree with the rest I did not quote).

Any trader that does not have access to putting in subpenny orders is hurt by this .

The retail trader does not get a better fill.

In actuality the retail trader does not get filled on his liquidity adding orders and is forced to go market , losing a few pennies in most cases.


That is the reality.

This market needs liquidity. Not subpennying.
More...
 
Quote from asiaprop:

NoFear,

There is nothing inherently wrong with lowering the minimum price move, but it has to be transparent to everyone and the lowest offer and highest bid have to be visible to everyone at the same time. I even advocate to make each and every single order in the market visible to all parties. If someone wants to move size let them do so, but with algos on their own end.
More...

But theres nothing wrong with the smallest increment being pennies. What benefit does subpenny for everyone have over subpenny for no one? Like you said, earlier, last thing we need is more market fragmentation.

Maybe you have thought of a reason that I have not.

As far as being transparent and on equal footing with everyone, we are 100% on the same page .
 
Quote from TraderZero:

Reread the quote, you and I agree. Traders, large and small are hurt by Sub-Pennying. And actually, I'll back-up a bit and say that anyone using limit orders to try to get filled on the bid (for purchases) and the offer (for sales) will get hurt as well.
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I did read it. I dont see how small investors are benefiting from darkpools . Maybe you can clarify. If you dont have access to being able to subpenny, you are being hurt by it. No matter who you are, because you are forced into taking away liquidity.


Unless you meant they are investing in the companies that are raping the market.:p
 
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