what about the ones coming in at the same time,you offer a fraction of a penny lower and the bid's gone,so they sell the next price which is your bid a few decimals below where you just sold,is that the added liquidity you mentioned in an earlier post,and since nobodies minding the store at the SEC,why not pay a few hundred a month and get that list that is presently legal and you can load the boat when the bid or offer get too large,thats ok ,your providing liquidity,gotta take this opportunity to thank all you hft traders,wasnt there some law suit about a guy loading up the shorts on leh and racing it to the bottom, and another story about running oil up to 140,yep, thanks again for posting here and giving us a chance to thank you,and for all the nice people who have lobbied to have laws changed and loopholes created so that they could better serve wall street and all the investors by adding liquidity to the market,my deepest regards for you and your families
hey HFT scum, yeah, you. Watch this
- Thread starter stock777
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Its hard to debate a subject when you cant even agree on the definition. As someone who actually works in the HFT industry, I can tell you, HFT applies to all 'High Frequency Trading Systems'. Not merely front runners. You are mistaken if you think the definition is anything but that, and you are adding to public misinformation by trying to argue that fact. Start using a term that actually describes the group you are talking about.
oh gosh, we are still stuck on the definition. All right, so you can rest tonight lets say HFT applies to all High Frequency Trading even to those who only collect a rebate by "adding liquidity" as you coined it so nicely. Now what? We still debate a subset of your HFT definition. And everyone, me included, only debates this subset. Are you happy now? Or are you at least able now to add more value rather than being stuck on the definition?
The problem is still that those in this subset access order flow and play a game that is only reserved to those paying big time for such privileges. And I dont talk about those like you who rent 150/month server racks, so please dont feel accused here.
The problem is still that those in this subset access order flow and play a game that is only reserved to those paying big time for such privileges. And I dont talk about those like you who rent 150/month server racks, so please dont feel accused here.
when the the hft's started losing their profits to the hft's with the extra info,then they would have to get the extra info to stay in business,so i;ll say the HFT'S WITH THE EXTRA INFO,,i doubt there are many around without it,sort of like non motorized wagons and the motorized ones mentioned yesterday,are u saying that u dont subscribe to the added info that is paid for which makes it non public info
We agree then. People who pay to access information which is not public knowledge and trade with it before it becomes public are participating in insider trading and should be punished. Simple as that. But as I said, those people are by far in the minority when it comes to sub second trading bots, just like with manual trading, insider trading is by far the minority (Id assume).
well I think we can agree that those who engage in those activities are the big firms (I think there was a great article which mentioned all the large firms I think it was 15-20, let me try to find it again). What happend on May 6 was not caused by the majority of HFT but by those who really impact the system because of their sheer volume. And pretty much ALL OF THOSE do pay for access to order flow.
So you want to use Jim Cramer and a U.S. Senator's idea of what HFT is? hahahahahah
We don't need to assume that... its the frecking definition.
If you want to debate flash orders or practices where firms have access to information before others, you and I are on the same page... its illegitimate and should be eliminated. No question.
However, you need to recognize that its guys like yourself who use the term HFT in an improper manner that give it a bad name. HFT is NOT the problem, and that entire style of trading should not be eliminated. By all means... kick out the steroid-using players, but let the legitimate boys play ball.
We don't need to assume that... its the frecking definition.
If you want to debate flash orders or practices where firms have access to information before others, you and I are on the same page... its illegitimate and should be eliminated. No question.
However, you need to recognize that its guys like yourself who use the term HFT in an improper manner that give it a bad name. HFT is NOT the problem, and that entire style of trading should not be eliminated. By all means... kick out the steroid-using players, but let the legitimate boys play ball.
So, are you paying for the information or not,and if not ,why?And if yes,do you still feel that the value of your providing liquidity ,outways all the customers getting fills a few cents above or below where they normally should,and if you asked these customers with the bad fills which would they prefer,do you think there would be an outpouring of gratitude for the liquidity that was graciously bestowed upon them?