Here's what happened after i buy course from Scott Phillips

[GunsnMoney]

To be honest i don't care he was a criminal. This is what happened in the past and he paid for it. Actually i am not even sure if he was a criminal. So i wouldn't worry about it and i didn't.

Actually i am not after my money. I wanted to pay and bought that course. What i can not accept is his attitude. He can not say f.. to his client.

And i liked him to be honest. He was very responsible. Looking at his background, i liked how he wanted to change his life. But suddenly he did this to me.

I bought this system too, but I'd like to point out that it's a system with many rules to follow. It takes a lot of practice to trade his system well and it is very difficult to master. It does have a good edge and Scott is legit in his methods. He even has a weekly review of every trade to look at how it performed but mostly to identify when mistakes were made by not following the rules.

Scott is a jerk but it's part of how he helps his customers to improve and not believe their own bs that trading his system will be easy; its not. Systems with a good edge still have many losing streaks so you have to trade thru the rough drawdowns to be there when it turns up.

Over 90R in the 6 months since it started with drawdowns of at least 8R. 68% profitable with a 1.15/1 P/L ratio. SQN of about 4.5, so maybe you should grow up at take another stab at it.

 

[nooby_mcnoob]

It's not hard to counter these dudes. Don't go violent. Just remain calm. Don't appear intimidated. I'm tall but not jacked and I've had to deal with my share of these guys. Too much aggression for my taste.

Basically, the thought process is something like this:

- Wait, why isn't this guy scared of me
- Should I hit him?
- Why isn't he running?
- Why isn't he getting angry?
- Maybe it's better I don't
* Walks away after threatening you *

All best are off if he is drunk and with his equally drunk, retarded friends. In that case, walking away while not appearing intimidated is your best bet.

How NOT to respond to a guy who can just sit on you:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1201345083854864385

Think about it. If you had remained calm as the skinny dude... You would have had the upper hand. But no, you had to think you could attack a guy probably 3x your mass.

 

[learner88]

This advice applies to everyone seeking to learn from financial trainers, especially those who call their systems Holy Grail.

 

[trendfellow]

"It does have a good edge" - NOT VERIFIED
"Scott is legit in his methods" - FALSE
"He even has a weekly review of every trade" - NOT REAL TRADES NOT EVEN DEMO ACCOUNT
"Scott is a jerk" - YOUR WORDS
"Systems with a good edge still have many losing streaks" - TRUE
"Over 90R in the 6 months since it started with drawdowns of at least 8R. 68% profitable with a 1.15/1 P/L ratio. SQN of about 4.5" - NOT VERIFIED AND DOES NOT INCLUDE COSTS!

I was not going to go public whith my stupid purchase of Scott's so called system.
But, today Scott Phillips asked for a favour in his newsletter. He asked people to honestly tell the truth on this forum.

So here is my view on Scott and the Holy Grail.

I bought this "system" too. Also asked for a refund. Did not get it!
I do know a few that did. Still in contact with a couple. Think that when people understood that this was not legit
they started to ask for refunds. A few managed to get that. But Scott stopped when he realized that he would have to refund too many.

My reasons:
- it is NOT a mechanical system (some of the setups are but NOT the full "system")
- it was sold as a ready system, completely mechanical, with backtest and verified trades by a former student of Scott
- it could be traded on es micro, es mini, fx (like EURUSD) and others
- there are SO many promises in his first sales video that where not true (yes I have that one saved and can talk about that later)

None of those claims and promises are true.

Even though Scott changes and refines his "rules", he has not yet been able to present a completely defined system.

The statistics from his former student where not real trades and they did not include any costs and slippage.

The statistics from Scott himself is based on by manually flipping through charts (2 min, 5 min and 10 min).
So there is a lot of hindsight in play. You can do a manual backtest but not the way he did it.
You can't make an honest decision if a trade is a trade or not if you see the future bars.
Especially for this system where you make the decisions (some at descretion) at the end of a 2 min bar AND you see completed bars on the 5 and 10 min.
In live trading those 5 and 10 bars are not completed.

Scott's backtest where on ES and MES and in some spreadsheets he has some of the trades back to the spring of 2019.
Scott has now switched to present "backtests" of EURUSD instead. I guess that is where GunsnMoney get his numbers.
Those stats are not real trades, they are not even done on a demo account. They do not include slippage and costs.

I do think that Scott has some knowledge and he is a character. But he is not honest and in my view he is a scammer.

And by the way, Scott is not alone in this scam. His brother in arms is Daniel Sphorin.

Acutally Daniel presented his live trades (according to him) for a while. He don't anymore.
Wonder why?

I have include his equity curve for the period august to october.

Scott! You asked for it and you got it - my honest view.

/ Prince Pit

 

[TobyNorth]

Just my 2 cents worth here. I'm not a customer of Scott, but I am on his mailing list and have been for nearly a year now. We are both Aussies but I personally don't know the bloke and we would have been on different sides of the law back in the day as I am an ex Qld copper. He has got a unique way with words and probably not how I would do business, but he calls a spade a spade, and sometimes that just needs to be done.

When Scott and Daniel first introduced this course the OP is referring to, it was well and truly rammed home that it was not going to be an easy method to master, and that it would require plenty of work on the customers part. They went to great lengths to cover this aspect of the course. I was tempted to buy it at the time but I'm not really a day trader, so I didn't think it would be for me. I have since seen the rules in a couple of webinars and had a look at the setups. It is fast and furious trading, so again, not suited to my personality. But having traded FX since the early 2000s, I have a fair idea of the work that goes into mastering a trading system, especially a fast one that mainly revolves around 2 min charts. You have to be on your game. In all honesty, 3x losing trades in a row is really nothing when first learning something new, or at any time in your trading journey. Nor do I think that the OP has put enough effort into learning the system. 2 to 3 weeks in demo on this system is just not enough.'With regards to the original offer of the course, I believe there was a fair bit of support attached to that payment, including access to a live room etc. I could be wrong here. The rules are now free but they aren't exactly explained in too much detail and there is no free support. It would be tougher to master it just with that free info.

With regards to Scott, and like I said, I've never met the man, but when I first laid eyes on him and heard his back story, I thought he looked like a boofhead and sounded like one to. I initially thought he couldn't show me anything new, but the more I watched his videos and read his emails, the more I was impressed by his trading knowledge. Again, not my style of trading, but I'm always looking for an edge and I'm still on his mailing list. I've seen him call plenty of live trades, including live statements etc. Yes, he is very rough around the edges, but he knows his stuff, his transparent and genuinely out to help other traders, but he doesn't suffer fools gladly. Maybe he should leave the customer service duties up to Daniel Have a good one...

 

[Fxadviser60]

Ates,

What is going on here?

Scott Phillips offered you a product which you bought. You then say you didn't go through the whole training, you add you only performed 3 trades which lost and you now say you are hard done by and want a refund.

There is a legal phrase "caveat emptor" - let the buyer beware. That puts on you the onus of thinking very carefully before buying something and having done that, you need to prove that what you received is not what you bought. So did you not get told how to trade this system?

Having bought the product you then need to learn the system and properly try it. You have done neither. Instead you thought you would get easy money.

Those of us that have done forex for a while, know money doesn't come easily....you need to work for it.... and one method does not cover all situations.

Now from what I see Scott's language can be somewhat, umm, crass - but he offers a system, a system which he says you have to test for yourself. Then if it doesn't work you may need to refine what you are doing. It is the information he has sold you and if you paid $250 and got more than an hour of information then you are doing all right.

My experience in this industry is that there are very few who want to share anything meaningful but in this case you get a trading technique [which may or may not work] and a method of recording your trading so you can measure what you are doing.

I am sorry but I do think you are expecting too much to ask for a refund.

Best of luck with your future trading.

 

[trendfellow]

Just my 2 cents worth here. I'm not a customer of Scott

TobyNorth,

The problem with Scott is much bigger than one guy (Ates) trying to get a refund.

That Ates thinks that 3 losing trades in a row is proof of anything is of course silly.

But that is not the point. He still has legitimate reasons to claim a refund.
And so does I and a lot of other suckers.

I have no illussions of getting a refund. Did not even bother to tell others about it.
But since Scott, via his newsletter, asked for my honest opinion I decided to honor him.

Hopefully we can save a few from falling in the same trap.

I don't have access anymore to the private facebook group for Holy Grail.
But funny thing is that the members are constantly being replaced by new fools.

Scott has now packeged his Holy Grail as "here are the rules for free but you need my mentoring to trade it"

Felt that some of your statements needed a reply:

TobyNorth: "I'm not a customer of Scott"

Lucky you.

TobyNorth: "but he calls a spade a spade"

Lying and telling customers to f*** ?

TobyNorth: "I believe there was a fair bit of support attached to that payment"

There was a month membership in the facebook group. Then there was a fee after that.

TobyNorth: "..it was well and truly rammed home that it was not going to be an easy method to master,
and that it would require plenty of work on the customers part."

If you haven't traded intraday then that of course is a challenge by itself.

But you can't and shouldn't trade if you don't have a system. The problem with Holy Grail
is that it wasn't a quantified system!

The rules where not fully defined. People really struggled to understand the system.
95% of questions in the group was "is this a setup or not?" That has nothing to do with
the execution. It is about the rules and definitions.

My guess is that Scott saw an opportunity in charging more money from the members in the
group by not being explicit.

If you ever where to get the rules you had to buy access to the group for several months.
And even then you would end up with a blur.

If the rules are not explicit you can't backtest and you definately should not trade it.

TobyNorth: "I was impressed by his trading knowledge."

He does have some knowledge. And he is very slick. But so is every snake-oil-salesmen.

TobyNorth: "I've seen him call plenty of live trades, including live statements etc."

Give me a break. His calls is random at best. Go through ALL of his calls and do an equity curve of them.

TobyNorth: "his transparent and genuinely out to help other traders,"

What you have seen is cherry picked bit and pieces on his newsletter.
According to Scott Holy Grail is THE BEST SYSTEM HE EVER SAW.
Then why doesn't Scott or Daniel (or anyone else) trade it live and make that statement live?!

TobyNorth: "but he doesn't suffer fools gladly."

Treating customers like garbage? Bullying people in the group?
Saw a couple of instances in the group where Scott banned people from the group.
This was smart and talented people with legitimate questions.

TobyNorth: "Maybe he should leave the customer service duties up to Daniel"

Maybe. Or better yet, stop selling snake-oil!

/ Prince Pit

 

[Ates]

Ates,

What is going on here?

Scott Phillips offered you a product which you bought. You then say you didn't go through the whole training, you add you only performed 3 trades which lost and you now say you are hard done by and want a refund.

There is a legal phrase "caveat emptor" - let the buyer beware. That puts on you the onus of thinking very carefully before buying something and having done that, you need to prove that what you received is not what you bought. So did you not get told how to trade this system?

Having bought the product you then need to learn the system and properly try it. You have done neither. Instead you thought you would get easy money.

Those of us that have done forex for a while, know money doesn't come easily....you need to work for it.... and one method does not cover all situations.

Now from what I see Scott's language can be somewhat, umm, crass - but he offers a system, a system which he says you have to test for yourself. Then if it doesn't work you may need to refine what you are doing. It is the information he has sold you and if you paid $250 and got more than an hour of information then you are doing all right.

My experience in this industry is that there are very few who want to share anything meaningful but in this case you get a trading technique [which may or may not work] and a method of recording your trading so you can measure what you are doing.

I am sorry but I do think you are expecting too much to ask for a refund.

Best of luck with your future trading.

I did not ask for refund. Please read my emails one more time. I have asked a single question and i am sending this post to show his attitude. He had to apologize from me

 

[Elemental]

I was also a purchaser of his Holy Grail system (which he now gives the rules for free, but whatever). I'm also a subscriber of his newsletter and he included a direct link to this thread asking for thoughts.

He made a lot of promises during his original sales pitch. For example, he claimed the system was 100% mechanical, but it isn't. If you are looking for a "high and tight" double-bottom or double-top style retest after a bollinger band, the way he described his rules gave some room for interpretation and thus not mechanical. His description of decreasing volatility was also NOT 100% mechanical.

I had mixed feelings regarding him and his systems, it gave me food for thought but it wasn't what he promised. The rules were not clear and rigorous which causes confusion. And Scott, if you read this comment, don't argue with me, just update the paid Members Section of the Holy Grail website and I will happy retract my comments.

Regardless, the fact that he would insult his paying customers instead of taking the high road, and beg for feedback by linking to this forum is pretty lame. Scott labels himself as a "Professional Trader" which may or may not be true, but he needs to work on his customer service skills and learn to be a "Professional Teacher"...or just stick to trading for himself if he can't take the heat.

 

[Ates]

He removed me from his emailing list. What email did he send to his group? Can someone DM me please? Thanks